Recent balance suggestions roundup

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Mukip]

Since EIRMod is back from Mexico and the devs are apparently back at work, I wanted to sum up the community discussions where I thought we generally agreed on something or at least grunted vaguely in the same direction.  So here's a list of what I and others think are good balance suggestions to improve the game without being too radical.  I understand the doctrines and veterancy are changing so I'm not going to bother with them, just unit costs and population.

Panzer Elite:
Suggestion: Increase their infantry and perhaps vehicle pool too:
Reason:  Even if you spend most of your pool allowance in all 4 areas you can still end up paying pp's.  PE needs a bit more flexibility.
see this thread:  http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12631.0

Suggestion: Change targeting priority of P4 IST to favour infantry over tanks.
Reason: This is self-explanatory really.

Suggestion:  Increase the toughness of PE infantry somehow.  Possibly give all the PE squads a free 20% health boost to take into account their lacklustre armour type.
Reason:  Their lack of staying power due to low health and weakness vs cheap upgrades like 30 muni grenades causes them to underperform.  This has been said repeatedly in numerous threads discussing PE for a while now.

Commonwealth:
Suggestion: Reduce pool value of Commando Piats from 3 to 2.
Reason:   Sappers, Tankbusters and Grenadiers are only 2 pool value and combined with 4 pop Commandos, you quickly run out of infantry  pop. 
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12530.0

Suggestion: Reduce pool value of Firefly from 5 to 4.
Reason:  Combined with the Cromwell Command Tank, it costs almost as much pool value to field a Firefly and CCT as a Tiger, when the Tiger is an all-rounder tank whilst the Firefly is merely a Tank destroyer.  You should have more room to field Cromwells too.  See above thread.

Suggestion: Reduce pool value of Lieutenants OR move them from Infantry to Support.
Reason: Their pool cost currently hinders your ability to field replacement officers.  See above thread.

Suggestion: Reduce munitions cost of Commandos (by 30-50 imo):
Reason:  They are not considered to be cost efficient by many people.  They have a high pool cost (4) which serves to limit spam already so they could do with a lowered cost.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12696.30

Allies:
Suggestion: Increase the cost of the mighty T17.
Reason:  As a comparison, it's closer to an Ostwind in damage output and toughness than a Puma, it straddles the line between light vehicle and tank and should cost more than other light vehicles.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12338.0

Suggestion:  Split Airborne into normal Ab and AT-Ab, giving the regular Airborne a lower pool cost but no access to RR's.
Reason:  We miss the hardcore Airborne companies of yore!  It will also allow people to field Ab squads as something other than RR caddies for a change.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12667.0

Wehrmacht:  the issues I have with this faction are mostly doctrine-related (ferocity + zeal etc) so I'm going to ignore them in this thread.


So amirite or what?  I think the mod is about as balanced as it has ever been at this point by the way, but I'd really like to see these changes.

[Smokaz]

Suggestion:  Increase the toughness of PE infantry somehow.  Possibly give all the PE squads a free 20% health boost to take into account their lacklustre armour type.
Reason:  Their lack of staying power due to low health and weakness vs cheap upgrades like 30 muni grenades causes them to underperform.  This has been said repeatedly in numerous threads discussing PE for a while now.

Sergant upgrade should be the way to do this, let him add whatever modifier/armor change to the squad as well as him making the squad 5 pop. Other than that, nice summary I hope you get their attention.

[Mysthalin]

I think that PE infantry should only be given the 20 percent health buff if they were to lose their soldier armour (they have twice as much "relative" HP when shot at by BARs than grenadiers), and group zeal would DEFINATELY have to disappear, as being able to survive direct 25pdr and pershing shots would be just a wee huge bit over the top.

Agree with all else said here - though I think it must be stressed that it's not zeal + ferocity that becomes OP, it's zeal on it's own, and ferocity on it's own(it's being deleted from terror in the doctrine rework) that's OP.

Zeal gives 0.18 cooldown at 1 man, among other huge buffs, leaving only snipers to be a proper counter to zeal grenadier spam. Shermans are no longer capable of killing the grenadier in a shot, suppression becomes almost impossible and if you use infantry, you'll be horribly outgunned. Leaving only snipers(and the largely OP recon tommy spam) as proper counters. And snipers can be easily countered by a 3x bike rush : something a zeal grenadier spam company is well capable of and will usually have at it's disposal.

[Ununoctium]

Allies:
Suggestion: Increase the cost of the mighty T17.
Reason:  As a comparison, it's closer to an Ostwind in damage output and toughness than a Puma, it straddles the line between light vehicle and tank and should cost more than other light vehicles.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12338.0

Hm I always felt the T17 had something of an odd performance.

A huge downside is it gets engine damaged Like a vehicle, outputs damage like a tank, but has wackjob modifiers that prevent if from having consistent behavior.

I think the problem is more general as in the unit is crazy and unstable and needs to be redone.

[CrazyWR]

nothing is wrong with the t17 ffs, its already been nerfed 3 times, and if you still can't handle it by now, honestly, you just fail. 

[Groundfire]

Nothing needs to be done with the T17. It's been nerfed enough.

[Ununoctium]

'nerfed', 'buffed', and 'fixed' are different terms.

I think the shreck/pak damage vs the T17 needs fixing and the T17 needs be cheaper.

[Mukip]

Seems like a reasonable idea to me.

[von_Luchs]

Staghound needs more fixing than T17.  The prob is that neither has a real hard counter aside from a p4 or higher.  Paks+shreck way underpreform vs these 2.  As has been said before, their accuracy on the move, their armor type and their speed need to be tweaked.

By lowering piat pop arent we just begging for more spam?  I know they underpreform without vet, but at vet3 they just melt face through builddings.  Im not sure whatthe solution is here.

[CommieKillerz]

for staghounds, it's not their gun but the mg on top.  that thing never reloads like it has infinite amount of ammo, resulting constant damage output and suppression.

[puddin]

First off, The Stag 50 call is the same on shermans and the like, So with a command tank it does well, Again 10 pop cap for that combo. 

Piats, Do worse with Vet.  Why? 

Accuracy buff makes them hit the front armor instead of over shooting and hitting the rear or having ppl back into shots..  So honestly, No accurcy vet would be nicer. 

Vet 3 is a dmg buff.  Only if it penetrates, Keep front armor with skirts facign piats... They won;t do any dmg...

T-17s never get evasion bonus, and their health is now shit. 

They are fuckign useless.  They should be 6 pop because they turned into an Armored car in their current state or a puma un up gunned.  Since it loses to the up gunned puma, and even with sand bags still on;ly takes 3 hits to kill it maybe 4.   and everythign hits them, No chance for misses. 

Stags have some health but 4 pak shots they die same as a t-17 but the 50 call kills a pak faster. 

How about, Shreks, Not single squads... 

Sinlgle at guns, And single shrek squads are fuckign usless they are deterents to healf dead vehicles/tanks nothing more.... If you think you will hold a line, your an idiot. 

How about Gestutwagons... With a 50 MU upgrade... Wow they rape... Never see em tho because terror players have their other toys to play with but they rape all of these. 

Any man paked AT rapes these l;ight vehicles now... Just take some time and play the game... T-17s are never used anymore and are only offered to a single Doctrine in Armor.. So they are not that big an issue... Same as Storms, Falls, and the like that are only offered to certain doctrins....

[Smokaz]

^

Wtf I still spam t17s on my armor, stun is amazing and it tears up n00b axis infantry

[CrazyWR]

noob being key.  Any competent player can handle t17 spam by now...

[Killer344]

Why? last time I checked It can take on most units, like an ostwind, but faster and cheaper.

[Smokaz]

Crazy's trying to say that if you know its coming, you can counter it... wazooo!

[puddin]

T-17 can;t take on an ostwind without stun, Can;t pen front armor of an Ostwind, Whhile ostwind has more range. 

PErsonally i;d rather have an ostwind then a T-17 currently. 

Ostwind has rangeand thats awsome. 

T-17 had evasion, Now it doesn;t... So its kinda Meh. 

And a t-17 should never be judged on ITs stun, IF its awsome with stun, IT should come with it, Not balenced on an ability it has.  That ability should be balenced.

I think the T-17ss are shit in their current form, Paks nail them, P4s panthers and everythign else kill them quite quickl withoutmuch effort....

[CrazyWR]

...honestly, if you don't have enough AT out to counter a t17, you don't have enough AT out period.

[Mysthalin]

First off, The Stag 50 call is the same on shermans and the like, So with a command tank it does well, Again 10 pop cap for that combo.

Wrong, it's a completely different gun, which has roughly 3-4 times more DPS over extended periods, and 2 times more DPS per burst period.

[Tymathee]

the t-17 is only good as a companion vehicle. Either with an m8, quad, another tank, an at gun or another t-17, otherwise it sux. They can't even penetrate Puma's and AC's sometimes they suck vs tanks as they bounce rear shots and paks absolutely destroy them or any tank really. People are finding out lately how good Upgun Puma's are, I see at least 1-2 every game now.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Accuracy buff makes them hit the front armor instead of over shooting and hitting the rear or having ppl back into shots..  So honestly, No accurcy vet would be nicer.

First people bitch about PIATs not being accurate enough, now you're complaining that they're too accurate? wut 

Vet 3 is a dmg buff.  Only if it penetrates, Keep front armor with skirts facign piats... They won;t do any dmg...

PIATs already do 144 damage to a P4 (becasue of their 1.6 dmg modifier), and with their vet 3 damage buff, are able to do well over one-fourth of a P4's health in a single shot (and that's not including their Ambush bonuses). Even with Skirts, they're able to do insane amounts of damage.
They also have good penetration, a 2x penetration modifier at short and medium range, and are not affected at all (penetration-wise) by Skirts.

T-17s never get evasion bonus, and their health is now shit. 
...
and everythign hits them, No chance for misses. 

T-17s have Greyhound armor, which means they dodge shots just as well as M8s (minus the vet 1 accuracy modifier). Plus, they are agile enough to kite or dodge most AT.

Stags have some health but 4 pak shots they die same as a t-17 but the 50 call kills a pak faster. 

And here, are you seriously complaining that a T-17 won't survive 4 ATG shots? Name me one light vehicle that will. Hell, a P4 can hardly survive 4 57mm shots.