Thoughts on giving armor handheld AT and their infantry buffs

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[Smokaz]

Y'know, I'm starting to think giving armor handheld AT in the form of 1 zook on rifles isn't such a great idea. I'll make my point short and concise. This is about the metagame of armor.

What you basically always had with the recent and later renditions of armor was an enormous blob of AT guns, sticky rifles and armor/light vehicles raging towards you with their super powerful repair abilities, their super tough t17 etc. Now it was all dandy and fine because armor didn't have very good infantry. But now, armor has decent infantry support. This is a great change. I think their infantry is going to be competitive now, and a combined arms armor player definitely have reasons to play with upgraded rifles around his armor.

BUT! I do not think giving them zooks is going to end up being such a great idea. When you finally defeated the mob of 57mms, t17s etc you now are facing mass sucide rifles coming in at the end backcapping with their 6man/cap superiority against anything but blitz packing that little zook which they now pass around to the last guy standing. It's probably going to be too powerful when your last hope of surviving the armor attrition war is having a AC or a puma to mop them up since all your other fuel go into stuff like p4s, panthers and marders. But now armor has sucide zook guys to counter those.

What does the rest of the community think of this? Wasn't it great that armor now has more competitive infantry options using armor to buff their rifles? Did armor finally have one big shortcoming made up for? Or is this going to make armor ram us all in the behind?

[Smokaz]

And what when some Two guy comes with his all vet 3 rifle stomp company lawl with stickies and zooks backed up by HE rounds, upguns and fixed m10s?

I would just scream.

[CrazyWR]

you realize two rage-deleted that account because it failed horribly right?  Its 1 zook smokaz, and all you have to do is kite, chances are the zook will miss repeatedly, and you'll slaughter the infantry...

[Smokaz]

Crazy, 1-2 zook DOES more than less counter stuff like ac's, marders and pumas.

Before armor had to get out a m8, m18, m10 and stuff to kill pumas and acs cause they have nice dodge. Now armor has zooks to do it.

[Unkn0wn]

I've seen multiple people try "zook spam" and they all kind of failed against even a semi-competent team. (I even saw three capable PE players beat triple armour, including the feared zook spam by evilnrg)

Personally, I have some bazookas in my armour account and based on my own experience I can only say they're far from the weapon of mass destruction you're making them out to be. Before, Armour was in fact the ONLY doctrine in the game that had no infantry based AT weaponry. (Not counting the sticky) This, combined with very few infantry/combined arms based doctrine abilities made the Armour doctrine quite one-dimensional.

P.S

You now are facing mass sucide rifles coming in at the end backcapping with their 6man/cap superiority against anything but blitz packing that little zook which they now pass around to the last guy standing

Sounds like a gimmick

And what did Smokaz say about gimmicks? Oh right...

Sounds like some people have been losing games to some gimmick companies. Live and learn, or rather in this case: Die and learn

And you concluded with these words

Armor has seen a vast improvement as a doctrine. Finally it gives it's infantry some decent support and has powerful abilities not solely dedicated to repair cheese.

[Tymathee]

Before armor had to get out a m8, m18, m10 and stuff to kill pumas and acs cause they have nice dodge. Now armor has zooks to do it.

Mark Target, kthnxbi to dodge, did it to rape 3 puma's today with no misses.

[Smokaz]

Yeah and I still credit my previous statements in this thread. I am opening a discussion on how this is affecting armor as a whole. Its not a balance thread or it would be in the balance forum.

Armor DID have a flank side regarding some of the targets which the zook is good at dealing with.

Fact is shermans and t17s were poop at taking out pumas and acs. Zooks arent.

Whats even more crazy is that Tym brought up a helpful point here.

[EIRRMod]

I tend to agree with the OP.

Zooks for armour.  Disagree, its Inf. territory.

I do agree they need a support weapon for inf, but not a zook.

[Akranadas]

LMG 30 Cal

[EIRRMod]

LMG 30 Cal

I was actually thinking along the lines of an AT weapon similar to the faust.  A light veh. deterrant, but not a mimic of Inf, and also not as dependable.

[jackmccrack]

Hawkins mines ?

[acker]

M9A1 AT Rifle Grenade?

http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usarg/rg/index.html

http://www.ww2gyrene.org/weapons_m7.htm

Skin/implement it similarly to the British anti-infantry rifle grenade version. Not sure as to whether it should be an ability like the Faust, or an upgrade like British rifle nades.

[Tymathee]

I don't think the allies really had anything like that. You could give a single shot RR, it'd be seriously helpful, easy to implement the animation is already there and you could use the same stats, it already penetrates well.

Whats even more crazy is that Tym brought up a helpful point here.

btw, screw u smokaz lol

[jackmccrack]

Tym it says on the website that the Allies did have that.

[Tymathee]

Tym it says on the website that the Allies did have that.

I meant the faust, not the Rifle nade, sorry if u misinterpreted me.

[Pak75mm]

such a baby you are. they arent even tank reaper zooks.

[Mysthalin]

Before armor had to get out a m8, m18, m10 and stuff to kill pumas and acs cause they have nice dodge. Now armor has zooks to do it.

Mark Target, kthnxbi to dodge, did it to rape 3 puma's today with no misses.

I think that's more to do with Mark Target being OP. T1 bottom table that gives you 1.25 acc and 1.25 damage? mmmm

[jackmccrack]

Mark Target is +20% incoming accuracy only.

[Mysthalin]

Still, it's OP, considering other abilities : Desert rats T1 in top table. 10 percent accuracy on tanks only WHILE standing still.
Defensive Positions T3 top table for Defensive : 15 percent more accuracy on infantry only while in light/heavy cover.

[acker]

I don't think the allies really had anything like that. You could give a single shot RR, it'd be seriously helpful, easy to implement the animation is already there and you could use the same stats, it already penetrates well.

When I say "like the Faust", I mean in terms of the ability.

Like, when you use a Faust, you click the button/hotkey, target something, and one dude pulls out a Faust and shoots it. AT rifle nades could be an ability like the Faust in the sense that you click a button, target something, and some dude/dudes fires a rifle nade.

...Or, to make it diffferent from the Faust, the ability has multiple dudes fire low-damage AT rifle nades in a wide shotgun pattern that spreads out with range. Say, 150% of Faust damage if every single nade hits (close range,  big target), but 30% Faust damage if only one nade hits (extreme range, small target).


Or just make AT nade launchers a weapon (much like the British anti-inf rifle nades) instead of an ability.