M10

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[lionel23]

I'll have to side with Deutsch here, Tym.  He is right in that while all vehicles do misfire, what made the M10 problem unique is that it's the only vehicle with a cooldown and windup, which meant that when it misfired, it had to do a complete reload while other things that misfire can pretty much fire instantly once repositioned to take the shot (notice say a Sherman that 'scoots' forward and does the shuffle and goes backwards and moves forward and still get its shot off?).

[gamesguy2]

Click less and you won't misfire as much, this isn't starcraft where you have to click 500 times a second just to get your units to go where they're supposed to go.

Everyone else reports significantly decreased misfire rates except you. 

[DeutscherStahl]

Click less? You have to click to keep moving, and click to keep targeting the right vehicle, and click a lot to deal with pathing. I often have to click move and click attack back and forth so that I can keep moving while shooting the right target, as opposed to the suggested halting and having a stopped M10 just so it can fire properly...

Maybe everyone else has less problems because they don't use M10s as much as I do. There is no reason I should be forced to micro LESS to get optimal performance - that's not how I roll. I'm always clicking.

[gamesguy2]

Click less? You have to click to keep moving, and click to keep targeting the right vehicle, and click a lot to deal with pathing. I often have to click move and click attack back and forth so that I can keep moving while shooting the right target, as opposed to the suggested halting and having a stopped M10 just so it can fire properly...

Maybe everyone else has less problems because they don't use M10s as much as I do. There is no reason I should be forced to micro LESS to get optimal performance - that's not how I roll. I'm always clicking.

You can circle with only a few clicks, targetting is irrelevant on the move as the M10 will fire by targetting priority anyways.  Now you are just making up reasons to spam 50 clicks a second.

Everyone else likes the new M10, only you don't.  We're not going to change a unit that people like just to please one person.

[DeutscherStahl]

You can circle with only a few clicks, targetting is irrelevant on the move as the M10 will fire by targetting priority anyways.  Now you are just making up reasons to spam 50 clicks a second.

Have you ever thought that targeting priority isn't perfect? What if I want to target something lower on what Relic considers the priority list, because it is a bigger threat to me overall or because it has low health? Circling is also not quite the same with only a few clicks.

Everyone else likes the new M10, only you don't.  We're not going to change a unit that people like just to please one person.

Except I'm far from the only person, and Unknown has already confirmed that it will be changed eventually when I asked him on chat a couple of hours ago.

ggwp

[gamesguy2]

Have you ever thought that targeting priority isn't perfect? What if I want to target something lower on what Relic considers the priority list, because it is a bigger threat to me overall or because it has low health? Circling is also not quite the same with only a few clicks.

The second you target something, the M10 stops.  The second you click to move again, the M10 reverts to its default targeting priorities.

Sounds to me like you don't actually use M10s.

Except I'm far from the only person, and Unknown has already confirmed that it will be changed eventually when I asked him on chat a couple of hours ago.

ggwp

Uh huh.

[DeutscherStahl]

The second you target something, the M10 stops.  The second you click to move again, the M10 reverts to its default targeting priorities.

Sounds to me like you don't actually use M10s.

How the fuck are you going to tell the guy with 7 M10s in his company that he doesn't use M10s?

Sounds to me like you have no idea how CoH mechanics work, and at the same time completely looked over what I said. There's a reason I click back and forth - there's these factors in the game, you see, they're called acceleration and deceleration. Stops are not instantaneous. By constantly switching back and forth you can keep the turret on the target while still moving faster than being completely stopped. This is called 'micro'. Unfortunately, micro breaks the M10.

Uh huh. Roll Eyes

What purpose would I have lying about this? Ask Unknown yourself.

[Killer344]

No point asking, this kind of decisions don't fall under one sinlge dev, ever.

And I have 8 m10s that just work wonderfully compared to vCoH m10s (Pre-fix), as long they don't go out of range, they don't missfire.

[DeutscherStahl]

And I have 8 m10s that just work wonderfully compared to vCoH m10s (Pre-fix), as long they don't go out of range, they don't missfire.

Then you're not microing them the same way I am, and are probably spending a lot more time stopped when targeting specific vehicles...

Here's a question: Why not? It can't HURT gameplay. The animation is already desynced.

[Killer344]

Well, the thing is that the animation with the full fix is really fucked up. The fix we applied stops about 80% of all missfires, that little 20% wasn't worth the shitty animation.

[DeutscherStahl]

Erm, the animation is already completely desynced after a single shot... how is that not toally fucked up?

[Killer344]

Have you seen the videos gamesguy made with both possible fixes?

[DeutscherStahl]

Yes, and while that result happens some times it's not what happens every time. I've seen the animation get completely desynced after one shot plenty, and I've seen it stay relatively okay for several shots. But the fact of the matter is it's often desynced and changing this does not affect gameplay in a negative way.

[gamesguy2]

How the fuck are you going to tell the guy with 7 M10s in his company that he doesn't use M10s?

Sounds to me like you have no idea how CoH mechanics work, and at the same time completely looked over what I said. There's a reason I click back and forth - there's these factors in the game, you see, they're called acceleration and deceleration. Stops are not instantaneous. By constantly switching back and forth you can keep the turret on the target while still moving faster than being completely stopped. This is called 'micro'. Unfortunately, micro breaks the M10.

I obviously have no idea how CoH mechanics work, I only do coding for this mod.

And no you cannot, because when you issue a move command, the M10 defaults to its regular targeting priorities.  When you issue an attack command, the vehicle stops.  You can't have the M10 target something lower on the priority table and move at the same time, the two are mutually exclusive.  You CAN do a weird stop attack stop attack pattern.  But you can hardly circle an enemy tank when you are stopping every 4 seconds, waiting for the turret to turn and aim, and then firing.   It would dramatically decrease the M10's overall speed and rate of fire.

[Killer344]

Btw, you can prevent tanks from decelerating =).. you just need to click on the right place at the right time.

[gamesguy2]

Btw, you can prevent tanks from decelerating =).. you just need to click on the right place at the right time.

Also very useful for crushing infantry.

[fallensoldier7]

Turning your tank also skips deceleration.

[DeutscherStahl]

And no you cannot, because when you issue a move command, the M10 defaults to its regular targeting priorities.  When you issue an attack command, the vehicle stops.  You can't have the M10 target something lower on the priority table and move at the same time, the two are mutually exclusive.  You CAN do a weird stop attack stop attack pattern.  But you can hardly circle an enemy tank when you are stopping every 4 seconds, waiting for the turret to turn and aim, and then firing.   It would dramatically decrease the M10's overall speed and rate of fire.

Except I could do it, if not for the misfire bug. "Some weird stop attack stop attack" is exactly what I do, and it dramatically increases the M10s speed while keeping on the same target without slowing down rate of fire in the least (if not for misfire).

Edit: Wait, I fail. I do a move attack move attack repeat, not stop attack stop attack. Point still stands, though.

Hint: A slow half-move is faster than a complete stop

For those that are really interested in graphics, it's already screwed up. They're not really going to lose much from changing it to a full fix, instead of leaving a bug in just to give the M10 a higher chance of not COMPLETELY desyncing (even though it still completely desyncs quite reguarly and is never completely synced).

[gamesguy2]

Except I could do it, if not for the misfire bug. "Some weird stop attack stop attack" is exactly what I do, and it dramatically increases the M10s speed while keeping on the same target without slowing down rate of fire in the least (if not for misfire).

Impossible.  Everytime you issue a move order and there is something of higher priority in range, the M18 would auto-attack that target and you lose your target lock, meaning you will have to add the 1.5 second ready aim delay when you change back to your original target.  Not to mention the additional time it takes the turret to turn.

Hint: A slow half-move is faster than a complete stop

For those that are really interested in graphics, it's already screwed up. They're not really going to lose much from changing it to a full fix, instead of leaving a bug in just to give the M10 a higher chance of not COMPLETELY desyncing (even though it still completely desyncs quite reguarly and is never completely synced).

http://www.xfire.com/video/22cd92/

http://www.xfire.com/video/22cd86/

When I tested the fix the half misfire looked far better.

[MonthlyMayhem]

Except I could do it, if not for the misfire bug. "Some weird stop attack stop attack" is exactly what I do, and it dramatically increases the M10s speed while keeping on the same target without slowing down rate of fire in the least (if not for misfire).

You can do everything can't you? :\

Anyway besides the fact, the M10 has improved a lot, and its fine the way it is. Like all the other people have stated, don't over micro, the M10 has fairly decent range as well. Targeting priorities will always be in effect, it will target the vehicle that has the higher priority. It misfires a lot less and it still does amazing against other tanks because of its crazy penetration. I guess you've just been having bad luck.