M10

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[lionel23]

So you're saying it is worst since the update? The M10 is like 10x better now than it has ever been.  Yeah misfires still exist but they are significantly less apparent with the partial fix right now and they can be used reliably.  I like the M10 with the update.

[DeutscherStahl]

I never said it was worse than before the update... where did you even pull that from?

I'm saying that it's been admitted that misfires still happen fairly common (once per game, at least).

By the way, I found out why you guys aren't have nearly as many misfires as me. I played with a guy who had 7 M10s in his company, and he called them out in pairs of two. No micro at all, he would select both at once, move into range, and halt. I'm laughing my ass off at how you guys "micro" your M10s, and I can see why I'm the only one having more than one misfire a game.

I understand that that one guy doesn't represent everyone, but I'm willing to bet some good money that's how most people use them.

[EliteGren]

It still requires micro to do that, he is just using the M10 differently than how it's supposed to be used. It's still very reliable to go into max range and kite the P4 since you have 5 more range than him. Basically a poor mans firefly.

[MonthlyMayhem]

I never said it was worse than before the update... where did you even pull that from?

I'm saying that it's been admitted that misfires still happen fairly common (once per game, at least).

By the way, I found out why you guys aren't have nearly as many misfires as me. I played with a guy who had 7 M10s in his company, and he called them out in pairs of two. No micro at all, he would select both at once, move into range, and halt. I'm laughing my ass off at how you guys "micro" your M10s, and I can see why I'm the only one having more than one misfire a game.

I understand that that one guy doesn't represent everyone, but I'm willing to bet some good money that's how most people use them.

Maybe he was...kiting the medium tanks? Yeah I think thats kinda silly too and I wouldn't do that! /fail

I just think your over microing tbh. One miss fire per game isn't that bad.

[Mysthalin]

- it'd be like fixing something that's not broken.

It's cool that you don't equate bugs with broken, but the misfire bug is still here and pretty much everyone who uses M10s admits experiencing them since the update. Even if it's only once per game for them now

I get on average 5+ miss-fires on my StuGs each and every game I play with them, due to people moving out of range. And StuGs don't even have a wind-up time. You propose they just outright remove the StuG because it's just not possible to fix it's miss-fire bug?

[DeutscherStahl]

that's not a misfire bug, genius, that's moving out of range

you people apparently don't even know what the misfire bug is... this is absolutely depressing

[Mysthalin]

A missfire bug is when any tank in the game does not fire off a round for whatever reason(moving out of range, overturning of the barrel, getting behind a shot blocker) even if the animation for the shot plays and the tank goes into a reload phase. Which is exactly what happens if you move out of range, or too much to the side of a StuG. Also, stop resorting to ad hominems - they do not add anything to the discussion.

[lionel23]

It's cool that you don't equate bugs with broken, but the misfire bug is still here and pretty much everyone who uses M10s admits experiencing them since the update.

Here is where you say it Deut, and you specifically mention since the update.  If you read the patch notes, you would have understood the DEV TEAM did a HALF fix, they never claimed to have totally fixed it but managed to significantly reduce the chance of misfires with the half fix.  The M10 is the most prone to misfires due to its weird animation and timers, but in its current state it is a lot better than before and I actually field them now.

And please don't attack people Deut if you're not going to add anything constructive to the thread.  As Mys said, any tank will misfire due to units moving out of range or arcs or LOS issues.

And there is nothing wrong with rushing in 2 M10s, and that itself does still require some micro as you're controlling two tanks at once to optimize their AT capability.

Also, a misfire once per game isn't terrible.  Ever use shrek or bazooka infantry and they fire and the enemy moves out of range and wastes their shot? Or the same with sticky bombs?  Your M10 has +5 range on most enemy tanks, use that 'window' to buffer and reduce the chance of a misfire if the enemy moves out of range, or anticipate he will retreat and use the M10s superior acceleration and speed to keep up with him (and also should be spotted for by recon to make sure he doesn't disappear in the fog of war).

[DeutscherStahl]

A missfire bug is when any tank in the game does not fire off a round for whatever reason(moving out of range, overturning of the barrel, getting behind a shot blocker) even if the animation for the shot plays and the tank goes into a reload phase. Which is exactly what happens if you move out of range, or too much to the side of a StuG. Also, stop resorting to ad hominems - they do not add anything to the discussion.

Yep, you definitely don't know what misfire bug is.
THE MISFIRE BUG IS WHEN A TANK FIRES A BLANK SHELL AND MUST RELOAD BEFORE IT CAN FIRE AGAIN. THIS BUG IS -EXCLUSIVE- TO THE M10.

The thing you were talking about with the StuG happens to EVERY tank and has NOTHING to with the misfire bug. It's not misfiring. It starts its firing animation, they move out of range before it -actually- fires (even though it's looked like it because of how the animation works), and the animation cancels out. You can still fire again immediately, because you never actually fired, it just looked like you did. With the misfire bug, which has nothing to do with moving out of range, you go through the entire firing procedure including reload without ever actually reloading.

[Killer344]

Yep, you definitely don't know what misfire bug is.
THE MISFIRE BUG IS WHEN A TANK FIRES A BLANK SHELL AND MUST RELOAD BEFORE IT CAN FIRE AGAIN. THIS BUG IS -EXCLUSIVE- TO THE M10.

Nop, that's the wind-up bug of the m10.

[DeutscherStahl]

Here is where you say it Deut, and you specifically mention since the update.  If you read the patch notes, you would have understood the DEV TEAM did a HALF fix, they never claimed to have totally fixed it but managed to significantly reduce the chance of misfires with the half fix.  The M10 is the most prone to misfires due to its weird animation and timers, but in its current state it is a lot better than before and I actually field them now.

No shit I know they did a half-fix, the entire point of this thread is to get them to do a full thread. I never said it was worse than before either, I said people, since the update, are still having it happen at least once a game which is far too much because the M10 needs every shot it can get to fight off something like a PzIV.

I'm saying that even 1/game for the average person is too much and it should be fully fixed because the animation is already fucked up, there's not a whole lot worse it can get.

And please don't attack people Deut if you're not going to add anything constructive to the thread.  As Mys said, any tank will misfire due to units moving out of range or arcs or LOS issues.

And you don't have a fucking clue what the misfire bug is either, apparently.

And there is nothing wrong with rushing in 2 M10s, and that itself does still require some micro as you're controlling two tanks at once to optimize their AT capability.

C'mon, please read what I'm saying. I'm saying he used them in pairs, moved them in range, and then HALTED. I guess you don't know what that word means. It means 'stopped'. Stopping is not micro.

Also, a misfire once per game isn't terrible.  Ever use shrek or bazooka infantry and they fire and the enemy moves out of range and wastes their shot? Or the same with sticky bombs?  Your M10 has +5 range on most enemy tanks, use that 'window' to buffer and reduce the chance of a misfire if the enemy moves out of range, or anticipate he will retreat and use the M10s superior acceleration and speed to keep up with him (and also should be spotted for by recon to make sure he doesn't disappear in the fog of war)

Again, M10 misfires have nothing to do with range, and none of the shit you listed is a misfire. I've already explained why it's not a misfire. It's simply to do with the animation coming before the shot is fired, and moving out of range while its doing that animation cancels the animation without it ever firing. Which is supposed to happen, because it hasn't actually fired yet. If stickies disappeared after they moved out of range, and you had to wait for them to recharge, THEN it would be a misfire.

So apparently you people are against fixing a bug and you don't even know what it is. That's absolutely fucking hilarious.

[lionel23]

And as Mys has already said, removing the windup timer would not make any noticeable difference in the amount of misfires.  The M10 is more prone to misfires, and has the exclusive problem of having windup and cooldown unlike any other tank, which is not simple to fix (short of dumping the unit and replacing it or really working the code on it and doing say a half fix which was done).

The Misfire isn't exclusive to just the M10.  Things like other tanks can misfire with the 'fake shot' and even ATGs do it too, which is really annoying for AP round 57mm wasting a shot and I believe they have to reload, usually I make sure my 57mm are well within range if I use AP so I can't recall.

Definition of the Prefix MIS - a prefix applied to various parts of speech, meaning “ill,” “mistaken,” “wrong,” “wrongly,” “incorrectly,” or simply negating: mistrial; misprint; mistrust.

Fire - To shoot (duh)

Misfire - To wrongly or mistakenly shoot.

So Mysthalin has just described the act of all tanks firing a shot, seeing the animation and no shell coming out which happens with the M10 and with many other tanks due to a variety of issue (moving out of range or arc, etc).  With my understanding, those tanks have 'mistakenly' or 'incorrectly' shot, having fired their guns but nothing leaves the barrel, I don't know what can be more clearer than that.

What's wrong with the M10 is that is has additional stats on that unit that Relic put into the game and that stat line bug is unique to the M10, since it isn't the same as every other vehicle in the game.  But to say other vehicles never misfire is an erroneous statement in and of itself (which Mys has so aptly pointed out).

[DeutscherStahl]

Nop, that's the wind-up bug of the m10.

HOLY SHIT THE WIND-UP IS WHAT CAUSED IT, IT'S CALLED THE MISFIRE BUG BECAUSE THE WIND-UP MAKES IT FAIL TO FIRE PROPERLY. THE MISFIRE BUG AND WIND-UP BUG ARE THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING

AND THE THING WITH TANKS AND OTHER SHIT NOT FIRING IS NOT EVEN A BUG, MUCH LESS A MISFIRE BUG. IT'S THE WAY THE ANIMATIONS IN THIS GAME WORK. THEY COME BEFORE THE THING ACTUALLY FIRES, SO IF YOU MOVE IT OUT OF RANGE BEFORE IT ACTUALLY FIRES BUT AFTER THE ANIMATION HAS MADE IT LOOKED LIKE IT STARTED FIRING IT HAS TO DO WITH THE WAY THE ANIMATIONS WORK, IT'S NOT A BUG

[lionel23]

You need to chill Deutscher, using foul and offensive language, ALL CAPS, and calling/insinuating that people are 'fucking idiots' is not exactly a very rational thing to do in a thread.

Unless you want to sit down and code and/or reanimate the M10 yourself, plenty of reasons have been given for why it can't easily be done.  The EIRR Team works FOR FREE. Are you paying them?  Is relic paying for their time and hard effort into this mod?

I've brought up the M10 bug before, and they finally deliver a satisfactory band-aid for the M10 by implementing the best fix they could while they are still implementing doctrines.  Patch hasn't even been out that long and you're really redemanding they work on it more after the trouble they went to just to get this semi fix in?

[Killer344]

No, they aren't the same bug. And tone it down, unless you are on your period on which case... well...I can't stop it.

[DeutscherStahl]

I'LL TONE IT DOWN WHEN YOU FUCKING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE MOST FUCKING BASIC OF CONCEPTS. I MEAN, EVEN IN THE FUCKING PATCH LOG THEY HALF-FIXED THE MISFIRE BUG BY LOWERING WIND-UP. HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU THIS DENSE? THERE'S ONLY ONE BUG IN ACTION HERE.

[lionel23]

Stop taking the steroids, you might pop a vein from the sheer amount of aggression you're displaying. May I recommend some chinese tea?

[DeutscherStahl]

I'm going to assume that since the best you have now is jokingly flaming me for my aggression, you forfeit the argument and accept that the M10 needs to be fixed.

Seriously, learn to debate.

[Unkn0wn]

German, cool it please.

Posting those kind of things just undermines your entire effort.

[Mysthalin]

Seriously, learn to debate.

You have already taken it out of the constraints of a debate by using aggressive and foul language and full caps(equivilent of shouting).

There is a miss-fire bug due to the wind-up, and a miss-fire bug due to aim times. The halving of the wind-up made sure the only miss-fire bugs the M10 gets is the same all other tanks in the game get - the aim time wind-up bug. Except for VERY rare exceptions.