Cmdo Piats Too Cheap

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[Tymathee]

They are too cheap. They're 180 100, sapper piats are 120 for 2, cmdr piats are getting 2 for 100 and they get smoke and demo charges plus the cmdr armor. They're not that easy to kill. just cu zthey're 3 man doesn't mean u can just pwn them. they're also 65 health per man.

I say they're too cheap because i've seen whole company's built around them. You can't even do that with airborne, rangers, nothing else.  There is no anti tank infantry that you can spam so easily. Play as axis and play against it lionel. your opinion is quite bias since all u do is play allies.

[bbsmith]

Huh? both Sappers and Commandos have the same armor and Commandos have 5 more HP vs Sappers, but Sappers have 1 more man.

[lionel23]

I play axis enough Tym, is all you can do now is attack me that is pretty sad.

Anyway, they get smoke (on a long enough cooldown, just like rangers get fireup on long cool downs) and to my knowledge they have no demo charges.  It's just a 3-man squad with commando armor and smoke grenades.  Sappers on the other hand can get demo charges and I think that's what you're confusing them with.

And in relation to other companies, yes you can do all ranger/airborne companies, in fact I'm running primarily an all ranger company just fine, got room for a handful of sticky bomb riflemen for strategic engine disabling so don't say you can't do that when you just happen to not choose to play that way, let alone telling other people that they can't use their T2 Doctrine units which is - I will say again - DOUBLE the expense in unlocks than any other faction (being T1 unlocks for their respective doctrine AT infantry).  They still get owned by assault and infantry squads enough, and if you want to complain about a handful of 3-man piat squads that absolutely have no 'buffer', shall we complain about my ranger company then?  I run tank reapers and thus I try to field as many bazookas as possible (I run about 22+ bazookas in my company with ATGs).  If I were an M1 Rifle Company, I'd drop all bazookas and go vanilla rangers/riflemen with sticky bombs, but I chose not to go that route and instead specialize my company in another path that is suited to my playstyle.  It seems your issue is not the weapon (as Smokaz suggests) but with an expensive, few man squad? Really?

EDIT: The Bob has spoken, so I'll add that they have the same armor there.  If Commando Piats are OP, then so are Sapper Piats then Tym?  Would you be happy if Piats were itself a doctrine weapon (like RRs) and instead gave British all access to Boy's AT Rifles?

[Tymathee]

Huh? both Sappers and Commandos have the same armor and Commandos have 5 more HP vs Sappers, but Sappers have 1 more man.

Yes i know and they're also lower pool. so why dont i see tons of sappers out there? why doesn't anyone spam 3/4/5 sappers like i see commando piats?

[Mysthalin]

Huh? both Sappers and Commandos have the same armor and Commandos have 5 more HP vs Sappers, but Sappers have 1 more man.

Yes i know and they're also lower pool. so why dont i see tons of sappers out there? why doesn't anyone spam 3/4/5 sappers like i see commando piats?

Because I got bored of doing that back when they could still repair.

 

Anyway, I really don't think it's an issue. The commando PIAT squad is generally put to uselessness after 2 shots from a Panzer IV, they can't cloak, they can't defend themselves from infantry, they can't throw grenades. The only thing they can do is fight tanks. And at 100 munitions, when an AT gun costs 110, I think their efficiency in doing that is quite adequate.

[Tymathee]

Meh i guess lol and i remember the massive sapper piat blobs at the beginning of EIRR when multiple could repair, was so hilarious.

[Mukip]

Yes i know and they're also lower pool. so why dont i see tons of sappers out there? why doesn't anyone spam 3/4/5 sappers like i see commando piats?

What's wrong with the Commando doctrine using it's doctrinal unit instead of the basic version? 

They are too cheap. They're 180 100, sapper piats are 120 for 2, cmdr piats are getting 2 for 100 and they get smoke and demo charges plus the cmdr armor. They're not that easy to kill. just cu zthey're 3 man doesn't mean u can just pwn them. they're also 65 health per man.

Arte you saying they are too cheap because rampaging Commando Piats are pwning you in games, or simply because they are slightly cheaper than Sapper Piats?

There are pros and cons to both squads. 

Commando Piats:
*Cheaper
*Lower pop
*Smoke grenades
*Glider deployment

Sapper Piats:
*Nondoctrinal
*Larger squad
*Ambush
*Can build defences

When I last played Commando I typically used a Sapper piat squad in my starting callin for ambush, as well as to build tank traps in case I got defence.  Then it was two pairs of Commando Piat callins in addiiton to ATGs.  I don't think it was better for the munitions than other docs could field though.  It was more mobile but more risky too.

Compare these callins:

6 Pounder 110 munitions
Sappers 120 munitions
(8 pop)

Two Commando piat squads 200 munitions
(6  pop)

6 Pounder 110 munitions
Commando Piat squad 120 munitions
(7 pop)

Which is the most generally useful?  I'd say it's the top callin, which is available to all doctrines.  It's slightly more expensive and higher pop, but the Sappers have more synergy with the 6 pounder due to their ambush.  They are also more defensively orientated so they will probably last longer than the Commando Piats who are suited to aggressive tactics and therefore higher attrition.  Another thing about Commando Piats is that because of their glider deployment it makes sense to use them together or else you have to walk on, so you typically see several Commando Piats on the field at once.  It's not spam it's just getting the most out of them.

I think the main reason people use them is because of their lower pop of 3.  Whereas another doctrine's player might bring in a Sapper Piat squad and an ATG, the Commando Piats are likely to come in pairs because it's only 6 pop for two.  That has it's advantages for sure.  The problem Commandos face however is that they are deploying more manpower and munitions for the same overall pop, so they will burn out faster towards the end of the game.  Commandos typically do poorly in battles of attrition, if anything they are too munitions hungry at the moment.

[Malevolence]

Meh i guess lol and i remember the massive sapper piat blobs at the beginning of EIRR when multiple could repair, was so hilarious.

That was mostly to do with the fail cap on British infantry - you HAD to take sapper spam or else you had no dudes!

[C0redian]

lol really what is so op in unit which can be forced to retreat after 1 p4 shot...

[bayarea510]

another complaint from the axis saying a 3 man squad is op

[Malevolence]

I'll take 3 man sniper squad if you don't care tbh.

[winisez]

lol really what is so op in unit which can be forced to retreat after 1 p4 shot...

not all axis are wher for a start, and just because one unit counters another effectively is not really an argument about something being balanced, not every wehr company should HAVE to bring p4's.

IST's get themselves killed by piats getting into range btw, before anyone says IST is even better than p4 against infantry.

[smurfORnot]

piat=noob tube 

[SX23]

Okay really, people are complaining about an expensive 3-man doctrine unit now?  Seriously?  Let's look at it this way:

1. Requires a T2 Doctrine Unlock to even be able to purchase them. This is on par with a CALLIOPE unlock for armor (2/8 Doctrine points)
2. This squad is more expensive pool wise (at 3) than sappers (2)
3. This squad has fewer men that Sappers (3-man as opposed to a 4-man squad)
4. Piats are bad at hitting anything moving, unless it is nearly point blank range.
5. Pop-wise, they cost 1 less than sappers (3 as opposed to 4) since they are a 3-man unit instead of 4.

What's so hard about these guys?  So if a CW Player has a bunch on the field, bring out infantry to fight them, stop relying on the crutch of throwing armor at these guys if that's what people are doing.  You don't hear anyone complaining about 6-man ranger squads or airborne, and they take nasty losses when fighting tanks like Tigers and such or arty or anti-infantry counters.  A british player is trying to bring more AT at the expense of survivability (less guys) and really can't use them against infantry (fewer AI guys to cover the AT guys).

Yeah sure...
1. Also unlocks mandoes HMG and mortar.
2. They also got Smoke and an sten.
3. "                                           " + more hp per man.
4. Lulz, shrecks and zooks aren't doing any better, furthermore, u shoot 2 times instead of 1 with the shreck.
5. Indeed.

Fighting those guys with infantry huh?
Sure, because we all know that allied players are retards and that they won't have an mg with them. (The famed mando mg that suppress anything).
Then, p4 miss 1 shot on 2. True, piats also miss, but a piat blob can fire around 15 shots at once, so you argument 4 failed. Also, sending a tiger into a piat blob like I've already seen means an ista-dead tiger due to the large hitbox. No point in your argument again.

Commando piats should only cost the same pool and prices as sapper (smoke and sten and more hp vs build defenses, camo and 1 more men).

[NightRain]

PIATs snipe infantry damn well...

[Illegal_Carrot]

PIATs snipe infantry damn well...

More effective than Rifle nades at killing inf.

[brn4meplz]

LIES.

But they fact they perform infinitely better at killing tanks and only moderately worse at killing infantry is a large benefit

[deadbolt]

wait till arty comes back and gives riflenades and piats 15% more accuracy, give 3 lts to ur blob and a few piats and u win all lul.

[Armfelt]

Piat commandos is fine, they even lost the possibility to _purchase_ explosives.

[CafeMilani]

wait till arty comes back and gives riflenades and piats 15% more accuracy, give 3 lts to ur blob and a few piats and u win all lul.

i wonder if they will ever change piat accuracy vs inf..