7 US officers down! Cost to attend funeral : 50 dollars.

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[Mysthalin]

2v2 on Church between

Mysth/Shockcoil (Human Wave Under Smoke Doctrines)

vs

Computer/Wittman (blitzkrieg - LW and HEAT).



8:00 AM - a rifle platoon of 3 rifle sections, their leading officers and a veteran AT gun approach the shop that lays to the east the church. They're surprised, but not phased by an axis scouting vehicle, which immediately radios the location of the riflemen to the axis forces that have already taken over the shop. The Heavy machine gun, Panzer IV and mortar prepare themselves for the imminent push. Grenadiers are put into heavy cover as the bike stalls the incoming infantry.

8:02 AM - the bike is shot by the trained AT gun crew as one of the officers calls down smoke upon the enemy HMG. A rifle section is sent to flank around through the church area. As the smoke comes down, the two remaining rifle sections charge, grenading the Heavy machine gun crew, which manages to pack up and redeploy just in time. The grenadiers begin stalling, as the second officer calls down more smoke upon the Panzer IV and the third upon the HMG.

8:03 AM - just three minutes from the engagement beginning both platoons are in full fight. The panzer IV is ambushed by the flanking rifle squad, a sticky bomb taking out it's engine. However, the mortar manages to get a hit on this rifle squad and it is forced to retreat just as a puma from the other axis commander comes up to reinforce. Meanwhile, the grenadiers and heavy machine gun are finally overrun, yet inflicting heavy losses upon the riflemen. More pumas are committed to the fight.

8:05 AM - as the first rifle platoon falls back to be supported by the incoming riflemen of the second commander the fight begins seriously boiling up...

More and more men have to fight, and casualties are high on both sides... 7 US officers out of 15 that participate in this battle are eventually killed or seriously injured, only brought back to life by the medics at HQ. Over 250 riflemen are found dead or sent home with the "golden ticket". It is a truly.. bloody.. battle.

http://www.filefront.com/15986319/2v2.rar

[Smokaz]

Looks like a good watch!

[EliteGren]

Saw the broadcast, if you replaced the riflemen with soviets it would have looked like eastern front, that's how many rifles there were.

[Smokaz]

I'm gonna have to do a quote here.

Smokaz, I doubt Smoke is going to impact the game as much as you think. Most players don't have the patience or tactical depth to use it constructively.

I TOLD YOU GUYS.. SO!

[nugnugx]

using it constructively and spamming the hell outta it on every occasion are 2 different things

[Smokaz]

MOrtar smoke was always out there, a big boogieman balance problem, we should consider ourselves lucky that we are finally seeing the vast disparity coming out of its hole now.Just wait until fighting without mortar smoke becomes noobish, and you'll see exactly how cripplingly superior mortar smoke tactics are with allies.

[Tymathee]

If it wasn't for the flamer rifles, i think it'd be different but because smoke doesn't affect flame, it's awesome.

Plus, when you can just drop smoker immediatley unlike the noob advantage or mortar smoke, people dont use it.

also under utilized, CCT smoke, it's freakin awesome, i've been usin it a lot lately and <3

here's an epic combo for you engineers.

CCT Smoke + Croc.

nuff said if u know what you're doin

[Mysthalin]

Even if I bring on all 9 of my officers at once (which I don't do, as even I can't micro that many seperate entities effectively at once) it's 33.33 seconds between each smoke barrage.
So, on the more likely even of me using 3 officers, I got 100 seconds of recharge beween each smoke. Hardly short enough to "use it on every occasion". We(me and david) use it on occassions that actually demand it - protecting ourselves from a flanking puma, when attacking an LMG/HMG position with grenades, when trying to sticky a tank.

Even though both me and david lack the patience - we don't need it to use smoke. Smoke is exactly the thing you want if you have no patience, actually - it's great for bumrush offensives without waiting for a stupid mortar/tank to come up.

And honestly - tactical depth does not require patience. ;p.

I'm with smokaz on this - smoke is made of the most epic awesome ever concieved by man. And it so happens that the faction that can use it to most efficiency (US infantry) happens to have the best smoke platform in the game.


Tym - we had no flamethrower rifles at all on our side this game.

[Smokaz]

Gonna put in another quote from what I've been lobbying amongst the balance guys:

Interfactional balance is a popular discussion these days. Regardless of what happens with big changes in the future, I think EIRR should consider to add a smoke-effective weapon to the PE arsenal. Currently only the flame nade and the AT grenades are "unaffected" by mortar smoke. They do get flamers from one doctrine, but lets look at the other faction's available smoke effective weapons:

Americans
Non-doctrinal: grenades, flamers, stickies
Doctrinal RR's, satchels

British
Nondoctrinal: Piats, Riflenades, button
Doctrinal: Commando nades

Wehr:
Non-doctrinal: Grenades, flamers
Doctrinal: Assault grenades

PE:
Non-doctrinal: AT grenades, incendary grenades
doctrinal: flamers

Brits are the king of the non-doctrinal smoke effective handheld weapons obviously. Airborne are the kings of the doctrinal ones. Wehr has decent non-doctrinal weapons against infantry, but no AT capability. PE has only grenades that work non-doctrinally, and unlocks what the americans and british have non-doctrinally, but it always comes on a mp44 squad making the ability to get flamers only if you want a lot of those as PE harder than with americans or wehr.

The way I see it there's one very easy choice pick from WWII history. The german rifle-launched AT grenade. What if we could implement this and give it to PE? It fits with their mobile support role arguably.

As you can see from a interfactional balance perspective,  axis is completely lacking in a smoke effective AT weapon on their infantry((Compared to allies)), and PE worst in general when it comes to smoke-effective weapons overall.

I would suggest that we add a infantry held AT weapon (doesnt need to be exactly what I suggested or anything like it) that PE could use in mortar smoke to partake in this mechanic.

[Smokaz]

Also, the only reason they lasted this long was because lightning war allowed them to come quickly back in the game, and assault nade spam which works under smoke.

Imagine a non-SE player on the axis team here. Or a wehrmacht player with no flamers or assault nades.

GG

[BigDick]

what is the bug/exploit u r using on ur hellcats? they did almost always penetrate?

[Mysthalin]

I'm exploiting the luck exploit.

Also known as reverse two modifiers.

Not only that, I'm abusing the fairly unknown "micro" bug which allows me to gain rear shots. I heard those penetrate more often ;p.

[Smokaz]

Only unit you need patience with dropping smoke, is the mortar.. which happens to be dirt cheap 

[Tymathee]

Well, one issue with PE getting non doc smoke eff weapon is they dont even have smoke. But at the same time u forget mortar and the mortar fire, then there's the inflammable gren also, piats dont work well with smoke, they get an acc penalty as well.

then theres the hotch stuka, unaffected by smoke.

so, why give the PE a unit that can use smoke effectively, if they dont even have anything to use with smoke? the only doc that can really use it is SE with the inflam and they give the mortar HT smoke as a T1.

[Mysthalin]

Tym - protip : incendiary and AT grenades. People not seeing the wind-up animation as their T17 evaporates from short range is one of the best things ever.

Smokie - the US officer is cheaper than the mortar ;p.

Also, could we please not make this a balance discussion? Use this thread as a reference in one that you'll make in the balance forums, but not more than that.

[wildsolus]

cool game, was very interesting to watch.

only thing that made me cringe this game was shock seemed to refuse going back to the triage

[Mysthalin]

David isn't one known for unit conservation, in all honesty ;p.

And rifles aren't known for being heal-worthy. That triage was bought entirely for the purpose of healing US officers (faster than they do it themselves already).

[wildsolus]

well when you're going against assault spam and you have constantly low HP but 3-5 man squads.... it's retarded to not heal them.

[Mysthalin]

usually in the course of being assaulted you either retreat or die, should the nades actually catch up with you.

[wildsolus]

i did watch the game and saw this happen quite a few times where the allied troops could've gone to the triage