The age old PaK vs. ATG debate (both equally OP vs. each other)

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[VERTIGGO]

I don't want to bring up a dead horse if it's meant to be, but I've noticed a hell of a lot of this ATG/PaK sniping of each other still. I thought we had debated this for months already, but it's still a big annoyance.

Is there any plan to reduce the accuracy between these two units, or do we need to prove it is ridiculous again?

[brn4meplz]

Stats wise, it is isn't a very high chance of occuring over and over. It does stand out when it happens though. There is also the possibility that some doctrines are buffing ATG accuracy when they should only be buffing vehicles or vice versa. We are noticing a few unintended results from some doctrine creations and they are being addressed as we find them.

[VERTIGGO]

Not to start anything biased, but I happened to notice it recently with vet3 ATGs with (I expect) tank reapers. As soon as the PaK fired once, the ATG would counter snipe it, taking it to about 30%, and often the next shot would kill it. It appeared to be about 50% accurate or more, which is much too high IMO.

Anyway, it's not unlikely that it was due to doc. buffs..

[Mysthalin]

The change from 100 percent accuracy to 50 percent accuracy a few months ago was fine as far as fixing it goes. Doesn't need to go much further down, really.

[Two]

it does when you have modifiers tbh

[Mysthalin]

it does when you have modifiers tbh

You realise that we could outright set the accuracy of all units versus all units to zero, and your units would still be getting killed, right?

[ChocoHic]

All at guns (pak, 57, and 6 pdr) can snipe infantery which is annoying. That should be fix. An atg is a tank killer not a sniper.

[CommanderHolt]

All at guns (pak, 57, and 6 pdr) can snipe infantery which is annoying. That should be fix. An atg is a tank killer not a sniper.

There is already a accuracy modifier when an ATG attacks moving infantry. It maybe annoying when it snipes yes, but it still a cannon of sort and still deadly.

[Mysthalin]

It has 15 percent accuracy against infantry, which goes down further to 7.5 percent if the infantry is moving. They CAN snipe infantry - which is fine, it's a bloody huge cannon - but it doesn't happen all that often at all.

[smurfORnot]

it is best when it snipes sniper,lol

[CafeMilani]

its really annoying when it snipes your retreating vet3 sniper
its more annoying for axis players in general because of their squads size.
its laughable when a pak snipes one rifleman out of 6 but it sucks when it happens to a schreck/lmg gren. even more when this happens 2 times in a row  
i know you dont care with your volksspam company

[Demon767]

stats or not, it happens way more than the stats tell us they do

[3rdCondor]

omg leave them alone!

[Tymathee]

the motto for company of heroes/eir should be

"Stfu, shit happens"

[NightRain]

I love sniping infantry with 57mm...no fix for that pl0x

[VERTIGGO]

The problem is that they are slow and very defenseless. This, coupled with their extra range, makes them defensive reserve weapons. However, when the quickest way to counter them is by sniping them with a couple of their equivalents, it defeats the entire purpose of having them strategically positioned.

There's a reason P4s avoid fighting shermans and vice versa; ever unit has a forte and that forte isn't (or shouldn't be) killing its own kind. In the case of the tanks, for example, one or the other may come out on top, but it is a wasted investment, which would be much more effectively spent on killing infantry.

[EliteGren]

The problem is that they are slow and very defenseless.

That has never been a problem actually.

[Mysthalin]

stats or not, it happens way more than the stats tell us they do

Or you just put way too much emphasis on when it does happen, completely forgetting the 8 times the AT gun missed.

[VERTIGGO]

The problem is that they are slow and very defenseless.

That has never been a problem actually.

I'm sorry, I meant those few sentences as a complete thought: because they're slow and defenseless > they are used as fallbacks > the problem is that they can be sniped before they can be pulled back.

I.E. they already have a problem with being overrun and when they can be nuked very quickly from their max range (which is beyond their sight), it becomes an awkward system.

stats or not, it happens way more than the stats tell us they do

Or you just put way too much emphasis on when it does happen, completely forgetting the 8 times the AT gun missed.

His argument is unfounded, but you quoted 50% yourself. It's not 8 misses, it's at most one miss, and less with buffs/vet.