The Ranger Report - Fixing Wehr Issues

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[lionel23]

As an axis player, I have noticed that there are some issues with their infantry in terms of fighting both British and American players.  Below are some things I think and suggest would improve the play of axis Wehr Companies from my experience:

1. Panzer  4 FUEL Price Reduction – This guy needs to seriously come down in fuel pricing, as to encourage light vehicle use without gimping every bit of your fuel.  With a Fuel 1 advantage as US, I can easily get 5 shermans, with 6 being an option if I take a fuel 3 advantage and still able to field a plethora of halftracks.  With Wehr, taking the 3rd fuel doesn’t even get you that 6th tank due to the uneven pricing and fuel reduction off the advantage.
2. Knights Cross Holder overall cost reduction – These guys are too expensive in terms of pop, pool, and resources to be truly effective on the field.  While yes they are capable, they just have too few men and cost way too much on the field to be really useful when you compare them to Tommy infantry or Rangers.  I suggest a lowering of the on-field pop to 3 (being 3 guys), reduction in MUNI, manpower can stay the same… and lower overall pool cost (being super specialists, make them 2 pool instead of the outrageous 3).  Just some suggestions in bringing them into line.
3. Double Shrek Discount on Grenadiers – Really, against American or British mass, mass light vehicle spam, the 1 shrek in a 4 man squad (as opposed to say double AT weapons in Tommys or Rangers or Airborne) is a detriment.  Either a doctrine ability to increase their reload or – I propose – a massive reduction in taking multiple shreks in a squad.  We have a doctrine ability that is a T2 unlock for defensive, yet no discounts on it?  That should be feared like Tank Reaper companies.. the bane of allied tanks!  I propose in regards to grens (being they can’t cloak and need a T2 unlock to do this) to have a 75% price reduction in the 2nd shrek.  Then it starts to gear them more into an anti-vehicle role just like how Tank Reapers make US inf companies weaker against inf in exchange for improved performance against tanks/vehicles.
4. Defensive Officer support aura rework? – I would love if the off-map became optional and he provided a better aura bonus to troops to encourage tactical play, as opposed to off-map arty spam.
5. Faust cooldown and reuse – Really, even with the ‘ready rounds’ doctrine to make them shoot faster, it seems to be they take way longer to reload and use again as opposed to sticky bomb riflemen.  Doctrine ability and overall quicker cooldown to deal with light vehicles.

Those are my suggestions to improving Wehr gameplay style.  They really need a better assault infantry and an incentive to use double shreks to counter vehicles.  What the axis player pays for that is an increased risk of dropping multiple shreks and the danger of keeping the squad on longer.  Storm shrek prices obviously should stay the same due to their ambush capability that regular grens don’t have.  Stugs are pretty cost effective and nasty (yes, even against rangers if they aren’t stupid enough to run into them) and the Panther, well we all know how awesome that tank is.  The P4 though I think needs some love in fuel price to free up some fuel availability.

[Demon767]

Agreed on

Lowering Mu of KCH only

Reducing P4 fu cost verrry slightly.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Welcome to Wehr.

[CafeMilani]

what happened lionel?

[lionel23]

What happened?

[Baine]

Welcome to Wehr.

On a sidenote.

I agree partly with you on the first point. You don't need to have the same amount of P4s as you can have with shermans. Shermans can be either AT(76mm) or AI(75mm), they fullfill two roles.

I agree on the KCH change. A reduction is long needed. They can't compete with Vet 3 Ranger armies (that i met in my last game) where someone had 10 Vet 3 Rangers, either with SMG or Zooks or both. I mean they are 6 men and can be AT and AI.
KCH are dedicated AI and only 3 men, yet they cost jsut as much.

Double shreks could use a price discount. Not too much though.

Other two points don't really matter to me.

[CafeMilani]

how comes P4s are up? they were one of the most retarded and hardest units to kill a few weeks/months ago.
how comes double schrecks are overpriced? they were op and should be removed a few weeks/months ago.
and so on. im sure i could find a few quotes on that tbh
what i want to say is *thinks how he can express himself briefly* ....l2p.
no offense but thats basically it.

i disagree on point 4 and 5 btw. dont become a fucking spammer like you are when u play allies.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Yo, he's been playing Wehr more often then he was before, and this has given a new perspective on game balance. Whatever.
Stop trying to make a fool of him when he's only trying to help. Other than maybe a little 'I told you so,' stop shitting up an otherwise legitimate balance thread.

[LeoPhone]

P4
it's price is really close to the sherman while the sherman has to pay munitions for upgun only to have a chanse beating the p4...

kch 3 pop....  no.
they all survive a sniper shot, and less guys is an advantage too since you have no guys running around in weird places which will make an enemy MG supress you.
(tbh, brens+vet and bar supress is simply what makes kch useless)

schrecks will close to always penetrate a sherman's front armour. piats however miss way more often and if they hit the front armour its not gonna penetrate...
(free cloak on sappers is kinda lame though)

def officer optional barrage seems like a good idea.. but will he actually still be useful without it?


puma runs into atg -> rifle stickeys it -> engine dmg -> atg turns and finishes it off
stag runs into pak -> volk faust it -> nothing... -> dead germans
missing link?
give the faust the new stun Light AT halftracks got. it will only work if the enemy vehicle is on yellow health at least, and the volks wont need those little stupid mines anymore.
+ increase price of fausts in that case

[Demon767]

exactly. p4 worst medium tank in game. so it should be priced accordingly

and theres no chance, it outright destroys p4s

[Jinker]

I gotta say, every time i see a P4 as americans I lol. All I have to do to HARD COUNTER it is press the ap rounds button on 1 AT gun. However, I do not want to see those spammed to an extreme if there was a price reduction.

[CafeMilani]

he knows that lionel played wehr frequently the last few weeks which however doesnt make him an axis player like he said.
thats what made me literally laugh too ^^

If you play Axis, then you're an Axis player.

i define an axis player as a player who generally plays more games as axis.

yeah KCHs as a 3pop squad would be ridiculous, didnt read that  
leave the spammer in you beside, lionel

[Smokaz]

Guys, really. Lionel is posting issues and all you guys are focusing on is his previous opinions. Guess what the game changes, and the player and the player opinion with it. Stop trying to take a shit on him, and focus on the discussion. Some of the stuff he mentions is legitimate, like looking at KCH cause they aren't fielded by much anymore. There needs to be something making kch a alternative to grens, they need their own special function where they do better than grens other than "getting sniped".

[BigDick]

players and opinions change in less than five minutes?

As an axis player, I have noticed that there are some issues with their infantry in terms of fighting both British and American players.  Below are some things I think and suggest would improve the play of axis Wehr Companies from my experience:

1. Panzer  4 FUEL Price Reduction – This guy needs to seriously come down in fuel pricing, as to encourage light vehicle use without gimping every bit of your fuel.  With a Fuel 1 advantage as US, I can easily get 5 shermans, with 6 being an option if I take a fuel 3 advantage and still able to field a plethora of halftracks.  With Wehr, taking the 3rd fuel doesn’t even get you that 6th tank due to the uneven pricing and fuel reduction off the advantage.

no P4 is not to expensive its priced ok the sherman upgun is just to cheap and to remove the 1s upgun penalty was just bad
P4 is no light vehicle counter since it is to slow for that

2. Knights Cross Holder overall cost reduction – These guys are too expensive in terms of pop, pool, and resources to be truly effective on the field.  While yes they are capable, they just have too few men and cost way too much on the field to be really useful when you compare them to Tommy infantry or Rangers.  I suggest a lowering of the on-field pop to 3 (being 3 guys), reduction in MUNI, manpower can stay the same… and lower overall pool cost (being super specialists, make them 2 pool instead of the outrageous 3).  Just some suggestions in bringing them into line.

pop is ok price to high...3 pop? lol

3. Double Shrek Discount on Grenadiers – Really, against American or British mass, mass light vehicle spam, the 1 shrek in a 4 man squad (as opposed to say double AT weapons in Tommys or Rangers or Airborne) is a detriment.

shrek is no light vehicle counter
problems with light armor is that it can cap, armor get OBM and field repair and that the T17 deals way to much damage to infantry and support weapons

  Either a doctrine ability to increase their reload or – I propose – a massive reduction in taking multiple shreks in a squad.  We have a doctrine ability that is a T2 unlock for defensive, yet no discounts on it?  That should be feared like Tank Reaper companies.. the bane of allied tanks!

tankreapers are OP there should not be the same crap on other side too

4. Defensive Officer support aura rework? – I would love if the off-map became optional and he provided a better aura bonus to troops to encourage tactical play, as opposed to off-map arty spam.

big aura boni leads to blobbing and blobbing is bad for gameplay so no
good that there is no heroic charge in eirr

5. Faust cooldown and reuse – Really, even with the ‘ready rounds’ doctrine to make them shoot faster, it seems to be they take way longer to reload and use again as opposed to sticky bomb riflemen.  Doctrine ability and overall quicker cooldown to deal with light vehicles.

most time volks are dead before they can use the second faust it would change nothing
fausts need some kind of crits for engine damage

[Smokaz]

Maybe you should be a bit jealous of Lionel's Obama-like ability "to change".

You've more or less been the same "iron man" (lawl) complaining about wehr since I joined this mod.

[smurfORnot]

how comes double schrecks are overpriced? they were op and should be removed a few weeks/months ago.

rly? probably that's why so many people used them 

[EliteGren]

Cleaned. Focus on the topic itself, not the player who made it.

[NightRain]

P4

400 Manpower 260 Fuel

Upgrades: 50 Mun MG42, 60 mun skirts, 50 mun Repair Optional: 70 mun extra repair.

Sherman

395 Manpower 240 Fuel

Upgrades: 50 Mun .50 cal, 60 mun Upgun, 50 mun Repair kit: Free: OBM extra repair, ?x Field Repairs.

See which one is better.

[CafeMilani]

we are far ahead nightrain.
wait..are we?

the p4 itself is fine. dont change it. FFS you dont see the forest for the trees!
its tank reapers, cheap upguns, zooks on every 2nd riflesquad, vet2 stickies, AP rounds, allied tanks with multiple repairs, field repairs etc which disable it with ease

[jackmccrack]

I agree, Wehr is underpowered.

P4s are crap and 2x special weapons should be brought back for Grenadiers.