stags, t17s and pumas(50mm)

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[LeoPhone]

stag price:               340mp 50 fu

puma(50mm) price: 300 mp 50 fu

t17 price:                 330 mp 85 fu


stag is only 40 mp extra, but it will beat the puma AND
has the possiblity to buy a top MG what will make it rape infantry too.

puma will beat t17 most of the time, but if the t17 gets luckey to penetrate a few shots(it will) the puma only needs 5.6 hits to die. with the rapid double shot of the t17 this is done easy.
puma needs 5.1 shots to kill sandbag t17


basically, the problem is that t17 and staghound are anti infantry vehicles.
the puma is anti light vehicle.
the price is near the same, but while the stags are raping inf, they scare off the puma too easy.

puma should be the counter to these nasty things, but it isnt.


also, the t17 is kinda ok now since its price is so high, but having such a small vehicle doing so much dmg makes simply no sense.

it should be a little recon vehicle able to flank some support weapons. not the main frontline unit.

i suggest to increase it's basic health to something like 250, and give the sandbags skirts bonusses.
price can also be lowered to standard LV costs then.

[CafeMilani]

puma should be the counter to these nasty things

not.

theoretically the stag got a slight 'nerf' a while ago but it basically is only a bit cheaper than before. ami HT mg is really good. so it was practically buffed since EIR players like to spam which they now can with slightly lowered muni cost  

they didnt change t17s in any way, did they? so it still is one of the most op units i guess.

[NightRain]

Puma is 50% Win 50% Fail

[LeoPhone]

puma should be the counter to these nasty things

not.

if the puma is not a light vehicle killer... then what is it?

a jeep?

not even that, since jeeps kill snipers and puma kills nothing.



brn4meplz had fixed the puma phase armour i think. i suggest putting that in, and at the same time make the puma more effective vs light vehicles.

[Mysthalin]

Leo - I don't think you realise just how much the puma would be nerfed if it's phase armour were fixed...


Anyway - the puma upgun should indeed probably recieve a slight buff vs light vehicles - but it's main role is not fighting them.

The upgun puma is simply brilliant vs soldier armour(brit infantry), as well as against M10s. It's decent versus cromwells

[Groundfire]

IMO, stop trying to buff your army leo.

You do this every time you switch to a staple key spam unit in your army.

I lead 1 of your pumas into 2 mines last time i played you. Im surprised your not calling for better mine resistance on them because of it.

The only thing I think the upgun puma needs is maybe a pop reduction. We shouldnt nerf other light vehicles to fall in line with the ones you are currently using.

Light vehicles should at most be deterrants towards one another, in most situations, they shouldnt outright blow the crap outta eachother unless you spend the appropriate resources to win yourself the advantage in the firefight, or you use an appropriate amount of micro to win the fight.  

Edit- Also, i dont see why you have a problem with staghounds beating upgunned pumas, upgunned pumas shouldnt be able to kill everything, yet im under the impression from your first post that upgunned pumas are suppsosed to be the LV killers of Wehrmacht. It is only the Staghound that the upgunned puma doesnt have a high success at winning against, which is fine IMO. If you lose to a T17, then that's just fail micro for the person using the puma. T17s should run away screaming.

I have no problem fielding 2 upgun pumas at the same time as a LV killing squad, i suggest you try the same.

[3rdCondor]

Anti-lightvehicle? I rape hordes of rangers with pumas, making pumas a primarily anti-infantry weapon in my arsenal. Haven't we nerfed enough?

[LeoPhone]

Anti-lightvehicle? I rape hordes of rangers with pumas, making pumas a primarily anti-infantry weapon in my arsenal. Haven't we nerfed enough?

show a replay or pic where a 50mm puma is as effective killing inf as the stags.

puma simply snipes one guy of a rifle squad... if you're luckey

[n8d0g]

Puma is an armed scout unit.

Use it to harassed AT-free infantry.

Upgunned to hunt down retreating armour or circiling heavy tanks like churchills and pershings.

Iny many respects the same as Hotchkiss with the upgun.

But bascially, the Puma is fairly useless at its supposed role as infantry killer, at least on its own, its pretty lethal in groups of 2 or 3. But it is great for getting around ATguns.

Plus, a Stag counter is the Pak and 50mms in a deep layer with shreks close by.

[LeoPhone]

we are only talking about the 50mm puma n8d0g.

and hunting down units is also where the puma fails, just like in everything else.

watch: http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=14949.0

[Nimitz]

Pumas have horrible accuracy modifiers when upgunned, impossible to chase down units or circle them because of that.
Unupgunned meanwhile they have shitty damage output while also being able to take less hits from ATGs in comparison to other light vehicles.

Only thing positive is the low munitions costs involved (everybody will get skirts+MG for a stag/m8 etc.).

[Smokaz]

Upgun pumas rape british inf

[Mysthalin]

Upgun pumas rape british inf

I once killed three spread out sappers on a road with one shot. My opponent went WTF?!

2-kills-a-shot are basically constant against soldier armour.

[Nimitz]

2-kills-a-shot are basically constant against soldier armour.

Replays/Proof? Upgunned pumas are good against british inf, yes, but that's slightly over the top. I've seen a pershing one-shot 3 PG squads... doesn't mean anything for balance.

[Smokaz]

Replay/proof? Why dont you go and test a upgunned puma vs tommies, it will kill them tons more reliably than it will kill american infantry.

[CafeMilani]

You do this every time you switch to a staple key spam unit in your army.

true tbh

2-kills-a-shot are basically constant against soldier armour.

not true tbh

[Smokaz]

At least quote the right posters with the right quote 

[Mysthalin]

I COULD post a massive mathematical stats crunch proving that the mathematical hope of killing 2 men in a shot from an upgun puma is something like 50 percent, but why bother? It's not like you'll ever agree to it, Nimitz - you'll just keep going in circles on how you "feel" it's different.

[jackmccrack]

Do it, mysthalin! Show these non-believers. 

[CafeMilani]

At least quote the right posters with the right quote 

no idea how this happened^^