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[vivie5]

Vet is quiet easy to get when you retreat at 20-25% life. I have close to, if not, the most vet in the current game and only loose vet through direct attempts to kill said vet (chasing to spawn) or just not noticing my vet 3 captain fight a MG42 by himself.

Staghound is handy and all, but without the ability to be vetted at all it serves as a throw away unit. People can use it with 0 fear of it needing to stay alive, thus it can stick around and go for those extra few kills till its dead. The stag also helps with suppression, of which the British have little of.

Half-track spam on the Axis side is annoying to play against. You can only scout when there is a hedge available (then get mortared) otherwise you loose infantry to focus fired half tracks. While perhaps not with the same flair as the Staghound, anti-tank halftrack spam is effective at pushing allies back. Throw in an IST or a Hummel and you create a very quick game. Allies need to then go balls to the wall and break out, otherwise its GG.

[lionel23]

Lionel, you have a large amount of vetted units. How you get all that vet honestly is questionable at best. However, I can only assume that you follow honorable play and there is not a possible bug creating vet at a faster rate than is intended.
That being said; you run around with a massive blob of vetted units steamrolling the axis. This is very frustrating to play against as well.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that eventually members are going to get frustrated with your army and do what they can to take it out. I personally have taken it upon myself to vet hunt the living shit out of these massive vet armies. Whether it be yours or somebody else. I really don't give a shit if I win or loose, just destroy the massive vetted army.
So here's some advice. If your vet is soooo precious, leave it off the field.

In regards to balance changes. Changing the behavior and or cost of a unit because it is used to vet hunt would be about the stupidest thing this mod could do. To even make that request makes me question the abilities of the player requesting it.

Have a nice day  

I barely have a lot of vet, not compared to my last company.  I do like the accusation that I'm somehow cheating or hacking my vet up when people have more vet than my own company posseses?

Now it's people like you who just do nothing but grief.  You don't aim to win, you just aim to make it the worst possible time for the other team AND gimp your own team in the process.  It's like when I played against a guy who brought out 5 or so snipers and then had his army eliminated from the game.  His teammates didn't know that and I felt bad that they had to be with someone who just overall isn't going to help your team win a game and is all after his own personal vendetta mission regardless of the game.  That's griefing in my book.  According to a quick Web Search, griefing is defined as:

A griefer is a player who plays a multiplayer video game to irritate and harass other players, rather than in pursuit of game objectives

And now referring to your quote:

It doesn't take a genius to realize that eventually members are going to get frustrated with your army and do what they can to take it out. I personally have taken it upon myself to vet hunt the living shit out of these massive vet armies. Whether it be yours or somebody else. I really don't give a shit if I win or loose, just destroy the massive vetted army.

The whole point EIRR is persistancy, vet lives and dies yeah that's a given, but to not even bother to play the game correctly just to intentionally lose and cause as much damage as possible doesn't seem to be in the fair spirit of playing EIRR, but hey that's just me I guess, huh?

And also FYI, my company is very easy to counter, use basic infantry and people need to stop relying on just shrek infantry to counter rangers.  If people actually took the anti-inf counter to rangers, my company is put to shame really, really fast (ask Jinker, as he is the best person I fight against that knocks my company out cold).

And I disagree with you in that certain grief actions should not be changed.  Look at G43 slow.  That was changed because too many PE players were using it JUST to stop a retreating unit by stacking it on a squad 2 or more times so they could gang rape it.  That isn't how the game is suppose to be played, its not about 'freezing' units just to spite your opponent, its about fighting on the field and using tactics.  I use a mix of rifles and bazookas and duel at range, that's what I love the most about infantry.  The other huge grief issue I've had to face is the flame hummel rounds that last for 4 mins (I believe the ability is called Chemical fire?).  Having that fired on the road to your spawn or behind you just so it instant kills any infantry that retreats, even if its full life is ridiculous.  The time OR damage needs to be toned down.  I don't mind it when say Uglysori fires it on me, he's using it as intended.  But to have someone just keep firing it behind way behind my lines and even if i retreat a full health squad, it still dies to fire is just silly.

[Malgoroth]

How about the devs just remove the 50mm HT, the Stag, AND the T17 from the game. Instant balance.

[panzerman]

so how is chasing retreating vet 3 rangers or howies with LAHTH or 50mm to chasing vet 3 tigers and panther of the field with double or even triple m10's even though it is almost dead and will be useless and a waste if u keep it on...

have a cry, people hunt vet to they don't have to fight it the next time!

[winisez]

so how is chasing retreating vet 3 rangers or howies with LAHTH or 50mm to chasing vet 3 tigers and panther of the field with double or even triple m10's even though it is almost dead and will be useless and a waste if u keep it on...

have a cry, people hunt vet to they don't have to fight it the next time!

+1

[lionel23]

so how is chasing retreating vet 3 rangers or howies with LAHTH or 50mm to chasing vet 3 tigers and panther of the field with double or even triple m10's even though it is almost dead and will be useless and a waste if u keep it on...

have a cry, people hunt vet to they don't have to fight it the next time!

The difference is you're using an ability to kill the retreating unit as opposed to using the unit normally.  Example, chasing a retreating ranger squad that retreats through a Knights Cross unit, and the M10s are normally chasing the Panthers in your case.  I don't think it's okay when you use an ability that negates their retreat bonus entirely, the same thing that was wrong with G43 slow was that it gave the axis a significantly better edge in killing vet off than any allied infantry unit could muster in stopping axis vetted inf from getting off the field.

Also remember that was also another reason assault nades and stun nades were removed... remember when rangers could throw a stun nade that froze an axis squad for 4-5 seconds so they couldn't move and died from gunfire and tank shots? Or the assault nades 'stunning' retreating squads?

[Mysthalin]

1. Chemical fire does NOT affect Hummel Incendiary Barrage. This one lasts for 90 seconds, all the time, regardless of other doctrine choices. And yes, it's likely being nerfed soon.

2. I don't imagine how the LATHT with focus fire can exactly hunt retreating infantry, when it's slowed down so much by FF that it only barely keeps up with standard speed infantry. Also - with the moving accuracy of the LATHT and the recieved accuracy modifier retreating inf gets your LATHT will hardly hit often enough to be effective at vethunting.

3. G43 slow was changed to not affect retreating infantry because it was possible to do so. It's impossible to make only armoured cars weaker against retreating units, however - unless with retarded amounts of work granting new armour types to infantry as they click the retreat button. And I severely doubt gamesguy has both the time and effort to do that - as it's just hours upon hours of work fixing something that is hardly even an issue.

4. Hunting and killing vet is part of the game - deal with it. People hunt vet not only because it's fun, but also because it allows them to have easier games later on against the same enemy. It's strategic insight - and it's logical to do so. If you're too afraid to loose vet - don't bring it on the field.

5. Ranger stun nades were removed because they outright disallowed the use of a unit for 5-10 seconds : which was retardedly OP. Not because it negated veterancy(though it was a part of being disallowed use of the unit). Assault stun nades have been replaced because they're considered detrimental to both balance and logic.

[Computer991]

THIS WHOLE GOD DAMN THREAD IS JUST... TL;dr (Too long to read)

Small and concise post people..

[panzerman]

i just watched the tanteville game in which elitegren spammed ht.

it works well but i did not see 2 many 50mm raping inf they got a few of the atg but the atg got a about the same amount of ht so wat was the problem...

same with the light ht it is good at killing inf but needs a couple of zooks or a tank to kil it.
it is exactly the same problem as stags and t17's for axis

[Lai]

If you keep putting pressure on enemy vet they'll start to hesitate using the units properly, thus the vet turns on them. Their rage meter builds up and they make more mistakes. Their teammates start to question his decisions and team chemistry worsens. Proper potential teammates begin to criticize said player's muscle. This goes on until he realizes his brain is just a detriment to his muscle. Finally he rids himself of brain and releases his inner muscle - NO FEAR, NO PAIN.

[Baine]

If you keep putting pressure on enemy vet they'll start to hesitate using the units properly, thus the vet turns on them. Their rage meter builds up and they make more mistakes. Their teammates start to question his decisions and team chemistry worsens. Proper potential teammates begin to criticize said player's muscle. This goes on until he realizes his brain is just a detriment to his muscle. Finally he rids himself of brain and releases his inner muscle - NO FEAR, NO PAIN.

Wrong Thread?

[Lai]

Nope, just responding to the vet hunting debate.

[Baine]

You mean you read this thread?  


Edit: People stop making sense after page 2 or 3 

[Lai]

No, I just scrolled through and saw the words "vet" and "hunt" in the same sentence, then I read.

[Mysthalin]

No, I just scrolled through and saw the words "vet" and "hunt" in the same sentence, then I read.

I would have expected you to cultivate discussion on how vethunters are evil and need to die - create drama in other words.

Not post some philosophy on muscle .

[Lai]

Muscle is a way of life, not some brainy philosophy.

A key point to hunting vet, and keeping customers, is to make it look accidental (not saying I've done this). Simply chasing retreating units is too obvious, although that too has its benefits. Also, I wonder what percentage of goliaths get detonated after the squad hits retreat as opposed to before?

[Baine]

Also, I wonder what percentage of goliaths get detonated after the squad hits retreat as opposed to before?

That's like a minigame actually. Who presses the button first. How close can the goliath get, shall i wait longer?

How long should i wait before i retreat? Should i let him get any closer?

[Lai]

Yeah, it's almost like a chicken race. Shall I kill the vet 2 now or hope for double vet 3 later? Shall I retire my squad from this game or permanently and be done with the goliath, or should I let him know that I feel no pain nor fear?

Bainy, your next vid should show-case the dark side of persistency/vet.

[SX23]

That was PURE luck. The same pure luck that makes a cloaked m18 miss a upgun puma at short range. Way 2 go, groundfire.

Every shot the T17 hit didnt penetrate. Even in vCoH, T3 is the answer to T17 moterpool because there is such a slim chance of penetration.

Not to mention that was a vet2 T17. The extra accuracy would've done alot to combat the puma's received acc.

Also, just cause I got lucky, and that scenario came out far in my favor, that still doesnt remove the fact that the upgun is wehr's go-to T17 killer, by a long stretch, followed by the P4.

Oh fuck no on this. We changed EIRR t17 gun. Before it, in Vcoh, a t17 and an upgun puma were pretty much equals. By light vehicles spam, we mean, well ever saw a 3 m10/t17 and 8 rangers squads combo?

And just by the way, when I said light anti-tank, I didnt mean the schreck. Something that would only damage light vehicles, and without any penetration to heavy armor.

[Groundfire]

That was PURE luck. The same pure luck that makes a cloaked m18 miss a upgun puma at short range. Way 2 go, groundfire.

Every shot the T17 hit didnt penetrate. Even in vCoH, T3 is the answer to T17 moterpool because there is such a slim chance of penetration.

Not to mention that was a vet2 T17. The extra accuracy would've done alot to combat the puma's received acc.

Also, just cause I got lucky, and that scenario came out far in my favor, that still doesnt remove the fact that the upgun is wehr's go-to T17 killer, by a long stretch, followed by the P4.

Oh fuck no on this. We changed EIRR t17 gun. Before it, in Vcoh, a t17 and an upgun puma were pretty much equals. By light vehicles spam, we mean, well ever saw a 3 m10/t17 and 8 rangers squads combo?

And just by the way, when I said light anti-tank, I didnt mean the schreck. Something that would only damage light vehicles, and without any penetration to heavy armor.

We have done nothing to the T17 gun but removed stun shot.
All other changes were made through relic patches; which yes before, like straight after ToV, the T17 was able to take down pumas, but it hasnt been like this for about a year.

How bout we get our facts straight, mkay?

If your confused on what we've changed and what isnt changed, ill refer you to the vCoH > EIR stat change list.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=13548.0