[CW] 25 Pdr vs. M7 Priest Self Propelled Artillery in RCA

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[NightRain]

I'll start this thread by saying that I'm a retarded Artillery spammer I like artillery and that is why I'm playing RCA even if it is not implemented. Now lets get to the point.

First Look at this Image:



Now look at this image:



The reason I choose to compare these two is only in Royal Canadian Artillery doctorine. I will not take into account Royal Engineers or Royal Commandos.
-Why RCA only? Because RCA has ability that RSE or Commandos don't. The Creeping Barrage.


Now lets compare 25 Pdr and M7 Priest. 25 Pdr costs 0 PPs, it is free from the beginning. Priest requires a lvl 7 to unlock + 45 PPs.

Now lets compare them in game.

25 Pdr costs only 7 Pop to field. Due to creeping it has very GOOD range and you can build it quite far and still fire what you want it to fire. Although it may be fragile but its cheap pop allows you to field up units in front of it. It is easy to counter arty, but try to get in range to counter arty it- so far with all experience I've had with 25 pdrs I must say that only a Hummel can defeat it IF it has Incidiary barrage (it can fire from its spawn to destroy 25 pdr) It only requires 2 direct hits or 1 direct hit and 2 others around it to destroy a 25 emplacement. It is damn fragile thing but that's no issue as it is rare for anything to get through the front lines to kill it (other than stormtroopers)

M7 Priest costs 10 pop to field up. Due to creeping and mobility it has unlimited range depending on the battlefield status. (In your spawn or in Enemy spawn). It has minor defence due to the .50 cal machinegun on it. It has somewhat good armor so that it is nearly immune to small arms fire. It is easy to keep safe since it can sit in its spawn and come out only to shoot. However it is eating 10 pop from your army at the same time. At Max you can have 30 pop worth of units on the field.


Now I ask from everyone.

Check the prices of these two units.

25 Pdr. 360 Manpowers 80 Mun (creeping) and 120 Fuel, 7 pop, 9 pool value.

M7 Priest. 465 Manpowers 80+60 mun (creeping +repair which is optional) and 355 fuel, 10 pop, 24 pool value.

M7 Priest nearly costs 3 25 Pdrs FUELWISE leaving only a 5 fuel Difference. M7 Priest costs more than a Firefly, (320 fuel) and it still does the exact same result as 25 pdr would.

Their only Difference IS: Mobility and light Defence

Does this Justify the fact that a Tier 3 unlock that performs exactly same as a emplacement cost 2x More resources? + It is a Tier 3 Unlock.

While people would say: "Don't get it then?" Isn't that same like saying "Remove the unit itself completely"?

Plus for 1 Priest on field you could field 2x 25 Pdrs and their only difference would be 4 pop and I think that 2 barrels easily defeats one single barrel.

I suggest a change on Priest's Price. It is way too costy for a unit that performs as good as a 2x Cheaper unit does.

Before you say anything. I will not take into account ANY DOCTORINE abilities. It is just Unit vs Unit thing in price.

[Mysthalin]

Indeed, the Priest seems to be just utter and complete crap when you can get the cheaper and less pop-intensive 25 pdr.

[smurfORnot]

compare it to hummel..who is also t3...see who is better...

[Smokaz]

What a bunch of conjecture. The 25 pounder gets nuked by two at nades

[NightRain]

Constructive Critism plz

[CafeMilani]

i suggest to increase the 25pdrs price to make the priest more attractive.
and increase creeping barrage price to 110.

What a bunch of conjecture. The 25 pounder gets nuked by two at nades

the survivability of arty units isnt that important tbh (further, nobody uses AT nades except he has the magnetic ones)

[Mysthalin]

Smokaz - how often do you see AT nades, first of all?

Secondly - saying AT nades destroy 25 pdrs is like saying Shrek clowncars destroy Priests - if the artillery's counter got to it, the artillery is dead(or retreated, in priest's case) - and the Priest hardly survives 3 times more attacks than the 25 pdr does to be worthy of it's 3 times higher fuel price.

Smurf - the Hummel is likely UP for what it's worth as well, with Incendiary Barrage being it's only saving grace.

@Aloha : he's clearly saying it's the Priest that is UP, not the 25pdr that is OP. Increasing the cost of the 25 pdr to make the Priest more attractive is like increasing the price of the Panther to make the KT more attractive - retarded way of balancing stuff.

[NightRain]

u suggest to increase the 25pdrs price to make the priest more attractive.
and increase creeping barrage price to 110.

The cost of Creeping is fine.

The cost in 25 Pdr is Fine comparing to what it is without Creeping.

It is the Priest that has a retarded cost hands down.

[CafeMilani]

I suggest to increase the 25pdrs price to make the priest more attractive.
and increase creeping barrage price to 110.

The cost of Creeping is fine.

The cost in 25 Pdr is Fine comparing to what it is without Creeping.

It is the Priest that has a retarded cost hands down.

im sorry. fixed.

[sheffer]

Yeah, creeping barrage is awesome, but i think its better to increase cooldown than price.

[NightRain]

Yeah, creeping barrage is awesome, but i think its better to increase cooldown than price.

Creeping already has a larger Cooldown than normal barrage.

But this is not about Creeping being OP

It is M7 Priest being UP since it costs nearly 3 times more than 25Pdrs

[CafeMilani]

the priest is far from being overpriced. its the 25pdr that is retardedly cheap. its range got also buffed, didnt it? if so, i dont see why its that cheap

[Smokaz]

Smokaz - how often do you see AT nades, first of all?

Secondly - saying AT nades destroy 25 pdrs is like saying Shrek clowncars destroy Priests - if the artillery's counter got to it, the artillery is dead(or retreated, in priest's case) - and the Priest hardly survives 3 times more attacks than the 25 pdr does to be worthy of it's 3 times higher fuel price.

Smurf - the Hummel is likely UP for what it's worth as well, with Incendiary Barrage being it's only saving grace.

@Aloha : he's clearly saying it's the Priest that is UP, not the 25pdr that is OP. Increasing the cost of the 25 pdr to make the Priest more attractive is like increasing the price of the Panther to make the KT more attractive - retarded way of balancing stuff.

Doesnt matter how many times I see such a completely cost negligible upgrade. Its not like you're making a hard choice including some AT nades. I usually run 2 at nades just for the weird occurence of a 25p/17/boforts

[Mysthalin]

the priest is far from being overpriced. its the 25pdr that is retardedly cheap. its range got also buffed, didnt it? if so, i dont see why its that cheap

How many times does your priest actually pay off for itself? That's right - it nearly never does, therefore it's overpriced.

[CafeMilani]

ask tym. it does  

How many times does your priest actually pay off for itself? That's right - it nearly never does, therefore it's overpriced.

how many times does your 25pdr actually NOT pay off for itself? never. the game you played with nightrain yesterday was a good example. it was a 2v2 (not much infantry fielded, not much to kill), yet it hat ~20 kills. it easily payed off for itself. there you go

[gamesguy2]

Creeping barrage is not supposed to be on a cooldown, that's a bug.

[NightRain]

Creeping barrage is not supposed to be on a cooldown, that's a bug.

It has always been on cooldown tbh

[Killer344]

And it's still a bug...

[winisez]

Hummel
Doctrines    Scorched Earth - T13 Hummel
Pop    10
Can airdrop    No
Can glider    No
Manpower    480
Ammunition    0
Fuel    360
Pool Cost    18 / 42 - Support Pool (Scorched Earth Doctrine)
Vet modifier    50
Upgrades    Repair Ability Medium (Cost: 0/60/0)
Vet 1    Received Damage 0.75
Vet 2    Speed 1.25, Barrage cooldown -20s
Vet 3    Damage 1.2, Barrage cooldown -20s
Abilities    
Unit modifications

The Priest is quite close to the hummel in terms of cost, and is able to buy creeping barrage without any doctrinal buffs, where by comparison it takes a t3 to get the hummel to a unit worth bringing point. Im inclined to say the Priest isnt that badly costed. My logic is simple, when i complained about the hummel it was fine and every allied player and his Mum was going on about how it was fine.

I actually think static arty in general is under priced, the 25 pounder not so much, but its still dirt cheap and takes nothing away from your company to bring one, the howitzer is also a bit too much on the disposable side too imo.  I would rather see artillery be expensive, and be buffed if it doesnt justify its cost, than have it made cheaper and just spammed everywhere.

Then there is the calliope, which I think is costed correctly,
Doctrines     Armour - T12 T34 Calliope
Pop    12
Can airdrop    No
Can glider    No
Manpower    600
Ammunition    0
Fuel    420
Pool Cost    24 / 42 - Support Pool (Armour Doctrine)
Vet modifier    50
Upgrades    Smoke (Cost: 0/30/0)
Repair Ability Medium (Cost: 0/60/0)
Vet 1    Received Damage 0.85
Vet 2    Recharge -20s, Range +10
Vet 3    Damage 1.2, Recharge -20s
Abilities    
Unit modifications    
It has no extra purchase's like creeping, nor does it require any doctrine abilities to be good like incendiary rounds, its tougher than the other two artillery pieces and faster, which is good because the other two are so slow there ability to move is worthless in most situations ( its better to just hit repair and hope help arrives in most situations). In addition to this the calliope is notorious for being a devastating artillery peice, and I know from an axis perspective its the single most feared piece of artillery the allies can bring to a fight.

So in summation I would say 25 pounders should be made a bit tougher and have their price increased to a point where it actually impacts your company to put one in ( they shouldn't just be like adding a mortar). The priest needs to be made worth its cost ( by itself, you cant justify a unit is good because if you get this t3 and that other t4 then it does Y, if a unit requires all that to be good, it should come with it standard and be factored into the damn cost). Hummel falls under previous statement, no need to elaborate.

well yea, thats what I think, if anyone even read that small essay.  In short, to a degree, I agree with Aloha, i know i know...but its still true.

[NightRain]

Although this is only Priest vs 25Pdr in this matter...Hummel should be discussed in another thread.

I choose only to compare Priest and 25Pdr to one another because both of them belong to the same doctorine and with Creeping Barrage there it matters which one you choose to take. Priest itself costs awfully lots of resources, 2x the ammount of a 25Pdr.

I declare that Hummel stays away from this thread and this thread would focus only 25 Pdr and M7 Priest.

Thank you