[US] Asymmetric Warfare

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[Jazzhead]

Is this ability going to be looked at? B/c it seems glaringly OP that every single squad has the ability to throw a nade barrage for free. 1 cluster killed 3 vet3 gren guys. Yes it is easier to dodge at longer ranges, but up close there is no hope. When you have multiple rifles running in an nading, it's impossible to avoid. At least just limit this ability to AB

[lionel23]

I have to agree... free assault nades AND AT weapons on every squad? Damn put US infantry to shame by Airborne being able to counter anything and everything.

[gamesguy2]

Elitegren, who has actually used it, tells me its very weak.

If the nade assault is OP, then blitz assault must be really OP, since that's a t2 unlock.

[winisez]

It didn't feel very weak to me, but maybe that was because It was basically just hard countering my heavy support t4 ( when it was just an mg buff basically).

The biggest cmplaint is all 28 rifle squads get it, for no munition cost, where as assault nades is what, 50 munitions nomraly? Actually thats not really an issue, a free 1400 munitions is NOTHING, no...that clearly isnt the issue here.....
 

[Sharpshooter824]

meh, what really needs to be removed is all rifles/AB being able to buy cheap mines, horribly imbalanced because you don't have to purchase those engies to lay mines, you can simply buy them on your mainline inf.

[lionel23]

Agreed, wasn't it agreed that the top tree should have been mostly 'passives' to buff current things, not add crazy abilities and powers for no cost or if it did add it for cost (like armor doctrine)?

I'm mainly an allied player who dabbles with my axis company that I semi-love (defensive needs more love, really... give me MP44 grens for crying out loud) and I can tell you from both sides that ability is way too powerful for the mass assault nades which has been pointed out way back and/or the free mass AT weapons on 6-man squads.

[Tymathee]

defensive company imo doesn't need anything, i love my defensive company. i agree some stuff needs a lil changing, mainly the things i avoided but other wise i love it dearly.

but at the same time, asymetic warfare being free for everything is just insane thats why its OP i've never gone against it thankfully but to be able to throw free nades and free zooks kinda blows, but im sure just like a lot of stragegies, once you see enuff of it, you'll devise tactics to beat it

[Killer344]

They aren't like the regular nades/zooks vanilla units use..

[lionel23]

I've seen them used, they're pretty powerful when squads are throwing 3-6 of them at german squads.

And even if the zooks aren't full, getting say 3 vanilla squads and say each pulls out 2 'weak' bazookas and hits an ostwind or puma, that's still the equivalent of being hit by 3 bazookas and for however long it lasts which means more volleys.  Imagine 40 pop of riflemen all doing it.  Been on the receiving end of it, its nasty that it counters infantry so hard for FREE which I think is a big issue.  Maybe not super critical broken like the sniping M10 accuracy bug but it's still a powerful advantage for free.

[winisez]

Just because I can, im going to restate something.

a free 1400 munitions

Thats not even counting the zooks.

[Tymathee]

but, there's like what, a 5 minute, 6 minute cooldown for the rifles?

[Jazzhead]

but, there's like what, a 5 minute, 6 minute cooldown for the rifles?

Doesn't matter. How many rifles do you have? Enough to take out every german squad...

[Masacree]

This is what makes airborne OP IMO.

I think anyone who's ever played versus one of these companies would agree (Gaelth is like the master iirc).

The thing is, wehrs best counters to airborne are volks with mp40's and well placed hmgs. Free assault grenades on riflemen just completely takes this option away. It gives a free extra fire up to all airborne and riflemen, as well as giving a soft counter to light armor (wehr's only other option versus airborne).

Overall, make it a bought ability, atleast.

[lionel23]

Exactly, it's not like putting it on rangers or airborne because their numbers is limited by pool costs.

On riflemen, you're talking if I do a mine-spam riflemen airborne company, thats more than 30+ riflemen with 15 MU mines, free grenades that are more than one when thrown (no more buying 30MU grenades) and free AT on top of that to swarm vehicles and/or back-up airborne to finish vehicles.

It's all around TOO GOOD for being able to counter everything for free.  As Wini says, a free 1400 MU there.  It's the same reason why I can't get the damn Ranger HP Buff to Tank Reapers and why its stuck with stupid carbines, because as the devs say you can't have everything, but yet airborne can?

As Masacree says, this needs to be a bought ability like AP rounds in Armor or HVAP.  It totally negates buying some upgrades completely when you get them for free.  Maybe if the ability made the 30 MU grenade into a grenade assault, viola it's balanced.  You have to buy regular grenades which are PASSIVELY being buffed by a T4 to throw more than 1, sounds reasonable to me.

[gamesguy2]

I'm not convinced until someone can produce a replay.  I've used it and it was very weak.

[lionel23]

Didn't Vivie already prove to you in another thread Gamesguy where it was throwing several grenades and you agreed with him it shouldn't be but you never tested it yourself?  Unfortunately since that was a bit ago, the 'recent temp' replay is no longer viewable and pretty much only an airborne player could test that and grind his way up to that.  I'm still working on my Defensive Wehr company after grinding 2 Infantry companies, so I'll have to pass.

[Masacree]

I'm not convinced until someone can produce a replay.  I've used it and it was very weak.

User error?

[gamesguy2]

Didn't Vivie already prove to you in another thread Gamesguy where it was throwing several grenades and you agreed with him it shouldn't be but you never tested it yourself?  Unfortunately since that was a bit ago, the 'recent temp' replay is no longer viewable and pretty much only an airborne player could test that and grind his way up to that.  I'm still working on my Defensive Wehr company after grinding 2 Infantry companies, so I'll have to pass.

It doesn't in my version of the ability.

However, when I implemented it I got lazy and just linked assault nade for the weapon, and that appears to have different results.

[lionel23]

So was that changed then to go back to your version of the ability now currently? If so then I would have to agree to seeing a replay of what it's doing now.

[Jazzhead]

I've experienced it from both sides
1. Gaelth and I (and someone else, can't remember the name) played a 3v3 and we all said "wtf this ability is OP". It pwnd every support unit and inf squad..
2. I charged 2 vet3 mp40 volks into 3 half populated AB squads (vet0, 1 RR, 1 bar, 1 vanilla). They naded me, killing 4 out of 5 guys in one squad and half-healthing the other and i had to retreat. It's basically bullshit