[WH] New nebel

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[Groundfire]

um yeah, new units, when they are put in are seldom truly balanced. I never saw this unit being tested, it was probably all done internally up until a few days before release.

They need to be re-tuned with input from the community.

The nebel, and yes the pak36 as well.

Who's idea was it to give the pak36 gun 480 health?

a flak88mm is 320 health. There is no justification for the gun health to be that high.

[gamesguy2]

The flak88 can't defend itself against ATG sniping.

Pak36 has 50 range and cannot fight an ATG at all.  Imagine how easy bofors are killed with less hp and no 17 pounder to back it up.

[LeoPhone]

The flak88 can defend itself against ATG sniping.

Pak36 has 50 range and cannot fight an ATG at all.  Imagine how easy bofors are killed with less hp and no 17 pounder to back it up.

but the pak 36 can defend itself better vs inf and light vehicles than a ATG. and nebel can defend better vs infantry than an ATG.

increasing the health of those units removes the counter for them.

[gamesguy2]

The flak88 can defend itself against ATG sniping.

Pak36 has 50 range and cannot fight an ATG at all.  Imagine how easy bofors are killed with less hp and no 17 pounder to back it up.

but the pak 36 can defend itself better vs inf and light vehicles than a ATG. and nebel can defend better vs infantry than an ATG.

increasing the health of those units removes the counter for them.

The counter for them is not supposed to be ATG sniping, but rather artillery and flanking.  The crew is not any tougher.

[AmPM]

Cause we all have access to arty and all maps are big enough to actually flank things that turn quickly...oh wait.

Poor design is poor design.

[Groundfire]

So the pak36 cant fight an ATG, but it has super HP to compensate, which means that it can stay in a line up and fight other targets while under fire from ATGs for a longer period of time.

That doesnt seem to be a well thought out fix. This support weapon should have the mobility to withdraw from an ATG fight if it cant return fire.

I would much rather have the gun's HP dropped to 350 and have the incomming acc. reduced from all other AT guns.

Just giving it super HP doesnt seem to be well thought out. This thing shouldnt be able to take 3 direct 57mm shots and live.

The flak88 can defend itself against ATG sniping.

Pak36 has 50 range and cannot fight an ATG at all.  Imagine how easy bofors are killed with less hp and no 17 pounder to back it up.

Also, the bofors is at a disadvantage already because it is immobile, therefore it warrants HP in the 400s.

[Tymathee]

now, the pak 36 is the one that should have more speed as it's as smaller gun. Lower health, up the moving speed, so that if you are getting picked off by an atg, you can move up and take some shots at it, whlie it moves away slowly.

the 280mm should have like 3-4 speed and the pak36 should be about 5-6.

btw, just thought of ti, 36 has more health than the unit that it's mirroring the Ostwind lol it has 400 health yeah...

the fact of the matter is, both untis are way too cheap to be so tough. Either up the price or fix it. I could put up some stats on what it should be if ya like

[SnoOp]

I don't think any of the axis have complained this much about a unit or doc choice =P

[sheffer]

i've got a point. Its OP counter against OP ab

[deadbolt]

i have that t4 that gives u +20% hp though.

[gamesguy2]

Cause we all have access to arty and all maps are big enough to actually flank things that turn quickly...oh wait.

Poor design is poor design.

So you expect to beat support spam by charging it head on?

[gamesguy2]

So the pak36 cant fight an ATG, but it has super HP to compensate, which means that it can stay in a line up and fight other targets while under fire from ATGs for a longer period of time.

That doesnt seem to be a well thought out fix. This support weapon should have the mobility to withdraw from an ATG fight if it cant return fire.

If it had the mobility to withdraw then it has the mobility to run away from flanking infantry and set up again.

I would much rather have the gun's HP dropped to 350 and have the incomming acc. reduced from all other AT guns.

Just giving it super HP doesnt seem to be well thought out. This thing shouldnt be able to take 3 direct 57mm shots and live.

Not possible, since it has the same armor as ATGs and there is only one ATG armor type.

Also, the bofors is at a disadvantage already because it is immobile, therefore it warrants HP in the 400s.

False.  Bofors have 1100 effective hp vs ATGs.  It has 550 hp default and takes only half damage from ATGs.

now, the pak 36 is the one that should have more speed as it's as smaller gun. Lower health, up the moving speed, so that if you are getting picked off by an atg, you can move up and take some shots at it, whlie it moves away slowly.

Why in the world would you charge an ATG with the pak36?  You will die horribly.

[Sharpshooter824]

Does the new nebel and new pak 36 have set up time? If not then there truly isnt much of a hard counter if it can simply move back, mortars will have an extremely hard time against it because of how mobile it is, if it does have a set up time, nevermind

[gamesguy2]

Does the new nebel and new pak 36 have set up time? If not then there truly isnt much of a hard counter if it can simply move back, mortars will have an extremely hard time against it because of how mobile it is, if it does have a set up time, nevermind

It's same as a normal ATG.

[Groundfire]

If it had the mobility to withdraw then it has the mobility to run away from flanking infantry and set up again.

Decrease rotation_rate? right now its set to 75 for pak36

also, rotation_rate for 250mm neb is 75 while normal nebs are 26
Speed of 250mm neb is also 3.5 while 150mm neb is 2.6

If were supposed to be flanking these support weapons, reducing the effectiveness that they can face and return fire would go along way since they are so powerful.

False.  Bofors have 1100 effective hp vs ATGs.  It has 550 hp default and takes only half damage from ATGs.

I didnt check, nor contest this. I know bofors has high effective HP for this reason.

Still doesnt mean pak36 should have 480 health just because it cant fight other atgs. its not meant to, it should be picked up and moved if its taking fire, not soak up an extra ATG shot.

[Unkn0wn]

This discussion really belongs in balance, not replay database.

[mosqu1to]

i've got a point. Its OP counter against OP ab

QFT

[sheffer]

Speed of 250mm neb is also 3.5 while 150mm neb is 2.6

With vet speed buff it has very funny animation when moving on roads 

[Tymathee]

This discussion really belongs in balance, not replay database.

it started off as a reply discussion then moved to balance but i guess so lol

[VERTIGGO]

I've encountered it a few times, and I have to say it's annoying, but easy to destroy with ATGs (2 shots, and they barely miss). You can also flank them easily, so a sniper could take one as long as his first shot is not in the firing arc.