[CW][PE] Mobile Artillery. Overpriced ?

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[CannoneerNguyen]

They're fine as they are right now, in my opinion. I run a two priest company and I am hurting on fuel, but not so much that I can't afford other vehicles.

[Mysthalin]

Nguyen - you do realise that you could be getting 6 25 pdrs instead?

[NightRain]

Nguyen - you do realise that you could be getting 6 25 pdrs instead?

And those 6 25Pdrs would be far better you will NEVER run out of arty in ANY possible game

[CannoneerNguyen]

Nguyen - you do realise that you could be getting 6 25 pdrs instead?

And those 6 25Pdrs would be far better you will NEVER run out of arty in ANY possible game

I prefer Priests. 6 25-Pounders would be feasible in my company, but from my experience the 25-pounder is marred by its vulnerability during setup and afterward. It may not be cost efficient given the resources, but I just prefer shoot and scoot.

[gamesguy2]

Nguyen - you do realise that you could be getting 6 25 pdrs instead?

And those 6 25Pdrs would be far better you will NEVER run out of arty in ANY possible game

Go build a 6 25pounder company and I'll bring my SE.

Good luck relying on a V1 to hit a howitzer, or on a firestorm to completely kill the gun.
And oh look - you just forced the enemy to use a T2/T3 unlock to kill your T1/T0 artilery piece. Fair trade, tbh, considering what both the V1 and the Firestorm are capable of.

What other arty is there? Rocket Arty? Yes, that is some very accurate arty, now isn't it? To my knowledge and experience using it - you're probably more likely to hit a priest with it than a howitzer, frankly due to the enemy moving away with the priest and likely moving into the rocket arty once it drifts away, whereas the howitzer will just stand there, watching the rain around it.
Precision Strike/Napalm Strike? Yeah, that's more or less so the only two things I can think of that might actually pose a threath to the static arty, while being relatively harmless against the priest. They're T2/T3 respectively - quite a worthy tradeoff, yet again.

On a side note - the enemy is capped at 2 offmaps per game. You're not capped to 2 howitzers/25pdrs.

And?  Offmaps are free.  If my offmaps can always kill a 140 fuel 5 pool unit I'm freaking ecstatic.

Rocket arty will kill 105s since the drift tweak, just go ask tym.  He kills two 105s with two rocket barrages easy. Firestorm will also kill a howie 90% of the time.  V1 sometimes misses but it also can kill the almighty triage as well.

Not to mention 105s die to a bike sneaking up on it.  All that vet does puff when you retreat your crew.

[Tymathee]

nguyen provided another point, static arty is susceptible while building and it takes a while to build, what if u need arty right that second? you bring on a priest or hummel and u can barrage immediately, not have to wait for the howie to get to the spot u want it, take ur eye away from battle while u scout where to put it, go into the build box, place it and then spend some mental energy trying ot protect it....nah. give me my priest over 3 25's anyday. or a hummel over 3 25's. I bet if i played with a hummel company vs a 2-3 howie company, i'd win in the arty battle as my hummel would giv your howies something fearce

[NightRain]

So far I've only seen these kind of complaints

"I don wanna see more hummels and priest on the field QQ"

There is a downside with static and it is building it, however it wont take long.  105 comes in a truck that builds for some time but 25Pdr comes on feet but builds very quick. I see no problem in it I mean Priest and Hummel has to drive up to front in order to fire their barrage 'immidiately'

Having enemy waste a offmap on a static unit that is (cheap) and have a chance of it surviving is a good tradeoff as mysthalin said. At max one can have 2 uses of one offmap. I still say it is a good trade off.

I still conclude that Mobile Artillery is overpriced compared to immobile one. 3x Immobile one is not 1x Mobile unit.

Bring down Pool cost and fuel cost and maybe even tier cost. I see it silly that the best mobile arty (Calliope) is a tier 2 while Hummel and M7 Priest are tier 3.

[Mysthalin]

Go build a 6 25pounder company and I'll bring my SE.

As soon as you implement RCA and give me level 9 with enough PPs for everything. I'm pretty sure your SE is maxed out, now isn't it?

Firestorm will also kill a howie 90% of the time

Not from what Louis told me, and he's been using support spam, so howies are sort of a priority to kill.

Not to mention 105s die to a bike sneaking up on it.  All that vet does puff when you retreat your crew.

Not to mention priest(hummel) die to a hotchkiss(stuart) sneaking up on it. All that vet does puff when you get shot to death.

static arty is susceptible while building and it takes a while to build, what if u need arty right that second?

Exactly what Nightrain said - you'll still need to drive up to shoot the enemy. It really doesn't take much effort or mental strain to protect a howie being built in the backfield about 25 metres away from your spawn.

[Firesparks]

I've proven that Immobile pieces are far more cheaper than mobile artillery and mobile artillery has only one advnatage that is mobility which is light defence. Moving away slowly from whatsoever.

Weak to small arms fire doesn't mean anything one can retreat the crew and recrew the 105 once the crew is off-field. Plus a triage can heal the gun and the crew extending their lives even further. But as Base, mobile artillery is too expensive. 3x more than a immobile one without there being any real reason for such high cost.

Mobility doesn't make a unit differ from its duty it only offers the shorter ranged unit unlimited range. If you get caught- it dies. There's no escape for Hummel OR for M7 Priest if caught into a combat situation. 355/360 fuel gone. As opposed to chasing off and destroying one 105 or 25Pdr. 160/140 fuel gone. Which one is higher ammount?

Once hummel or Priest barrages and hits something, enemy will see the unit's location via tactical and minimap. This means that they know the units general location and can bum rush it with rapid deployment units. Was it a Puma, M10, Tetty, AB, Stormtroopers whatsoever. Moving or staying still, there wont be much of a difference. Hummel and M7 Priest ofc can dodge a arty barrage but not a aircraft.

+ More for the offmap thing. There is a chance the gun survives and it can be recrewed. OR just bring in another one, after all enemy wasted an offmap on a cheap unit INSTEAD of that devious airborne/ranger/vet infantry blob that was finally caught in the open and supressed.

Doing a bombing run on a Hummel or a Henschel run on a Priest are worth the offmap. You just hurt a PE coy or Brit coy badly by removing a lot of fuel from them, and on top of that if they field another one you know that they are lacking vehicles.

What more do I have to say? I'm bascially repeating myself again from my previous posts.

1) retreating the crew means losing the use of its veterancy. Sure your company still keeps it but it's out for the battle. There's also the risk that your crew doesn't manage to escape (storm anyone?). Hummel doesn't have to worry about those things. This is important since veterancy give artillery crew faster recharge on barrage.

2) priest get extended range with super charge rounds, and Hummel have lockdown that extend the range as well. On most map the range is big enough that the priest or Hummel can hit the middle of the map while still sitting in spawn. Being mobile also means that it can move as the frontline moves. You don't have to worry about your artillery piece getting left behind.

3) both immobile and mobile are vulnerable to counter rush or off map after firing. The simple fact is that the Mobile arty are better at surviving the rush because it's more durable, it doesn't have an exposed crew, and it can moved. We are not saying that the mobile arty is immune, but it does have much better survivability than the immobile piece.

Lastly, there's still the fact the RCA and SE give out buffs to the hummel and RCA that make it much more powerful. 105mm only have artillery fortress which mainly increase it survivability, it's still not likely to survive a rush.

[NightRain]

1) Loss of original crew (vet or not) doesn't mean the loss of a gun. You can still use that 160 fuel you bought. Los of a Hummel or M7 Priest means that you lost that 360/355 fuel.

2) Doctorine abilities are not considered in a balance treatment when we talk about a BASE of a unit. The doc abilities are ignored right there. As mysthalin and I've stated. DOC abilities are NOT taken into account when we discuss about a unit as a base.

3) Despite mobile arty units mobility both Priest and hummel are very slow. Fast response units like stuarts, pumas, stags, and whatsoever can easily kill mobile one and immobile one too. The difference is, killing immobile one is less of a loss than killing the mobile one. See 1 Priest is 3x the cost of a immobile one. Its been pointed out several times already. The thing wont change. Mobile artillery simply is too expensive compared to same unit type that is immobile.

[Firesparks]

1) Loss of original crew (vet or not) doesn't mean the loss of a gun. You can still use that 160 fuel you bought. Los of a Hummel or M7 Priest means that you lost that 360/355 fuel.

2) Doctorine abilities are not considered in a balance treatment when we talk about a BASE of a unit. The doc abilities are ignored right there. As mysthalin and I've stated. DOC abilities are NOT taken into account when we discuss about a unit as a base.

3) Despite mobile arty units mobility both Priest and hummel are very slow. Fast response units like stuarts, pumas, stags, and whatsoever can easily kill mobile one and immobile one too. The difference is, killing immobile one is less of a loss than killing the mobile one. See 1 Priest is 3x the cost of a immobile one. Its been pointed out several times already. The thing wont change. Mobile artillery simply is too expensive compared to same unit type that is immobile.

1) The hummel is immune to decrew to begin with. When it's the last time the hummel crew get shot out by rifles or grenade? The fact that you have to recrew is a weakness, not a strength.
Yes, the hummel cost alot more fuel, but it also have more hitpoints. The 105mm gun piece itself only have 250 hp, the hummel and priest have 400 hp. The same thing that will kill a hummel will more easily kill the 105 mm gun piece.
2) You can't just blow off the doctrine ability. Maybe the mobile piece is too expensive without the doctrine buff, but you willing to see the
3) we are not saying the hummel is immune, but it's still alot more durable than the gun piece. The fast respond unit has to chew through 400 worth of hp against the hummel, but it only has to chew through 250 hp on the 105mm (and the hummel can repair). Lastly The hummel chasis can deflect rounds, the 105mm can't.

[Firesparks]

Do I have to keep repeating myself, raise the fuel price of the immobile artillery pieces, (The 105 and 25pndr) and everything is balanced, and what do you mean being recrewable is a weakness?! ROFL, recrewing means you get to use it  instantly after the crew has died.

The hummel crew doesn't even die to begin with. They don't have to worry about smalls arms fire or grenades.

[AmPM]

Yea, but lets say the Hummel fires, you have to wait to fire again no matter what happens. Lets say your Howi gets decrewed, shove some Engies on there and fire immediately.

[Mysthalin]

The hummel is immune to decrew to begin with. When it's the last time the hummel crew get shot out by rifles or grenade? The fact that you have to recrew is a weakness, not a strength.

Except that if you ONLY get decrewed - with the gun left intact, you get a reset cooldown. Which is, in fact, a strength.

The 105mm gun piece itself only have 250 hp, the hummel and priest have 400 hp

And 2 105mms will have 500 combined health. You'll take longer to kill the 2 105mms, which cost less than the hummel in terms of fuel.

2) You can't just blow off the doctrine ability

Yes, we can. The unit needs to be worth it's cost without ANY doctrine abilities, and then the doctrine abilities need to be balanced between themselves. Or shall we begin pricing riflemen at 280 MP because they MIGHT get carbines?

Lastly The hummel chasis can deflect rounds, the 105mm can't.

The hummel can only really deflect light vehicle rounds with any frequency, and that's only if fired on the front of the hummel. Rear shots will always penetrate. Also, take note of the damage modifiers that the allied light vehicles have vs the hummel.

Stuff can bounce off howitzers just as well - take, for instance, the upgun puma, and put it at long range. Try a long range ostwind, if you like, as well.

[NightRain]

Looks like this discussion requires mods words a Answer to a question:

WILL there be changes in Mobile artillery's cost?

[Two]

Hummel is in imo, yet i dont hve a clue about the priesthaving not played with one in over a year.

[SX23]

Hummel is in imo, yet i dont hve a clue about the priesthaving not played with one in over a year.

I would tend to agree with Two on this. Lowering mobile arty price can only have one logic conclusion: More mobile arty on field. That would be quite detrimental to EIRR's current gameplay, as the easy suicide in units such as m10 and storms would cost more than the said arty piece.

[Firesparks]

Except that if you ONLY get decrewed - with the gun left intact, you get a reset cooldown. Which is, in fact, a strength.

And 2 105mms will have 500 combined health. You'll take longer to kill the 2 105mms, which cost less than the hummel in terms of fuel.
Yes, we can. The unit needs to be worth it's cost without ANY doctrine abilities, and then the doctrine abilities need to be balanced between themselves. Or shall we begin pricing riflemen at 280 MP because they MIGHT get carbines?
 

The hummel can only really deflect light vehicle rounds with any frequency, and that's only if fired on the front of the hummel. Rear shots will always penetrate. Also, take note of the damage modifiers that the allied light vehicles have vs the hummel.

Stuff can bounce off howitzers just as well - take, for instance, the upgun puma, and put it at long range. Try a long range ostwind, if you like, as well.

1) that's nice bonus that your time reset when you recrew, but it's not somewhat you can easily take advantage off.(unless you purposely retreat the crew and continually use up rifleman). The fact that the crew can be knocked out or scared off by normal infantry is a disadvantage. Hummel/priest is just going to laugh if you attack it without ATW. You will still lose the crew's veterancy bonus if you retreat, and the difference between a vet 0 105 and vet 3 105 is huge.

2) the creeping barrage and the incendiary nade will have to be nerfed quite a bit if the moblie arty are to be cheaper

3) the only two light vehicles that have a bonus against the hummel is the stuart and tetrach. All other light vehicle seems to have normal damage.

[Tymathee]

i would like to see the priest and hummel be T2 rather than t3. both docs are pretty much built around both units yet you have to wait until level 7 to get them

[NightRain]

i would like to see the priest and hummel be T2 rather than t3. both docs are pretty much built around both units yet you have to wait until level 7 to get them

This too.

People don't seem to see it.

I'm not asking Mobile Artillery to be CHEAPER than Immobile one.

Mobile Artillery will be more expensive which means => Less Artillery