[us]Hellcat camo bonus

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[Hicks58]

The only solution would be to make the m10 gun as shit as the m18 gun. =)

Other than the weapon they are basically identical with the m10 being cheaper by 5 fuel.

Wouldn't that make the M10 shit against tanks and epic against infantry? Last time I checked the M10 was a TANK Destroyer, not a Light Vehicle Destroyer.

Why not rename it to an Infantry Destroyer when you make that change lol...

M18 gun is the problem tbh, not the M10 gun. A unit shouldn't have to rely on an ability to be useful - It should augment it's current capabilities instead of replace them.

[AmPM]

The Hellcat doesn't even do that =)

[seanconnery]

the m18 doesn't suck.  i use hellcats all the time, and they are amazing against p4s even with the nerf.  just because they can't penetrate panther frontal armor doesn't mean it's bad.  all you have to do is seriously use it as a tank destroy by flanking and ambushing (with/or not with cloak) panthers from the back.  don't be a nub and try to tank with it because that's just fail as hell.

[Firesparks]

the only thing the hellcat is effective against is the Pz 4 and below. The hellcat just completely fail against panther and above.

Which means it's just something that happened with the changes in meta-game. Nothing actually changed about the efficiency of the M-18, nor about the efficiency of the Panzer IV. Therefore, no change will come to either tank - just because people spam something else at the moment doesn't make the units useless.

So you're okay if the M18 is completely junk against panther(and what not). The M10 still have utility against the heavies because of its speed and rear penetration, both of which the M18 lacks.  
Most competent axis player can reverse their tanks fast enough to keep the front against the m10, and the m18 is even slower. Even with the cloak bonus the m18's gun penetration only match that of the m10(and it only work for ONE shot).

Sitting in cloak waiting for that rear shot is just not practical, especially since the hellcat is going to be in very hot water once it fire.

[AmPM]

And the M10 reliably penetrates almost all targets from the front, not including KT and Jadg.

[Spartan_Marine88]

the m18 doesn't suck.  i use hellcats all the time, and they are amazing against p4s even with the nerf.  just because they can't penetrate panther frontal armor doesn't mean it's bad.  all you have to do is seriously use it as a tank destroy by flanking and ambushing (with/or not with cloak) panthers from the back.  don't be a nub and try to tank with it because that's just fail as hell.

Its a TANK DESTROYER. Why shouldn't it reliably penetrate heavy tanks?

[Groundfire]

just because something has a title designation in the CoH manual doesnt mean that it functions as such in game.

its not gonna change, even if you put "tank destroyer" in caps.

Everything has a hard time penetrating panther front armor.

M10s, at short range only have a 36% chance out of the box. What makes you think that the Hellcat should be able to have anything better?

[AmPM]

It shouldn't, but it should be able to damage a P4 from the front.

It has 1/2 the Pen of an M10, why would you use the M18? For the awesome Hawkins mines?

[Computer991]

It shouldn't, but it should be able to damage a P4 from the front.

It has 1/2 the Pen of an M10, why would you use the M18? For the awesome Hawkins mines?

Hellcats rape P4's straight up

[sheffer]

It shouldn't, but it should be able to damage a P4 from the front.

It has 1/2 the Pen of an M10, why would you use the M18? For the awesome Hawkins mines?

U see P4. Move your M18, cloak before shot, P4 is yours.

[AmPM]

Or I can use the M10, which does the same thing more reliably vs all targets with less micro =)

The problem isn't that the Hellcat can't do anything, its more of, why buy it over an M10. It costs more and is barely better when it gets its Ambush off. After that it does much less reliable damage.

[Firesparks]

M10s, at short range only have a 36% chance out of the box. What makes you think that the Hellcat should be able to have anything better?

Hellcat sacrifice native penetration for camo and bonus. The fact is that even with the camo bonus the hellcat still doesn't penetrate any better than the m10.
The m10 is just generally better than the m18 aside from the ability to cloak, .50 cal , and hawkins mine, all of which have some what dubious value.

[sheffer]

M10s, at short range only have a 36% chance out of the box. What makes you think that the Hellcat should be able to have anything better?

Hellcat sacrifice native penetration for camo and bonus. The fact is that even with the camo bonus the hellcat still doesn't penetrate any better than the m10.
The m10 is just generally better than the m18 aside from the ability to cloak, .50 cal , and hawkins mine, all of which have some what dubious value.

Ok, dont use it. I  prefer 3 m18 insrtead 3 m10 in my inf company. I like m18, u like m10. Or u just want another m10 with different skin?

[Mysthalin]

So you're okay if the M18 is completely junk against panther(and what not).

Hellcat cost <<<< Panther cost.
Hellcat role = Panther role.

Yeah, I'm pretty much more or less so absolutely OK with the fact the M18 gets raped by a panther(and what not).

You forget the cloak shot also grants you 1.5 damage - say what you will, I find that quite useful.


Yet again, it's more of a problem with the M10 being too good, rather than the M18 being useless. And no, it's not the M10 crush ability that makes it too good, before anybody puts their two-pence in.

[Tymathee]

For some reason, i always feel like the m-18 is better vs light vehicles than the m-10.

Personally dont think m-10 is too good, its so fragile the problem is some of the armor doc abilities that make it so uber.

[gamesguy2]

For some reason, i always feel like the m-18 is better vs light vehicles than the m-10.

Personally dont think m-10 is too good, its so fragile the problem is some of the armor doc abilities that make it so uber.

M18 is better vs light vehicles due to ambush damage bonus and the fact that it fires faster than the M10.  M10 reload is 6 seconds, M18 only 5.2.