Adding Surrendering infantry

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[Groundfire]

So, I was browsing around the small mods fourm in RelicNews and found this little mod that seemed quite interesting.

Basically someone went and made a Scar code to allow enemy infantry to surrender, and I think we could put this to some practical use for EIRR.

Ill copy the first post over here...

What does this Mod do?
- Any unit can be put into it so the script will not make them surrender under suppression or so they will not surrender under any cirumstances.

- The criteria for the squads to surrender is for the squad to be pinned with 4 or less members OR suppressed with 2 or less members. Once the criteria is matched, a probability is run every few seconds for the squad. The probability varies by the number of members left, so a squad that is pinned with 1 man has about a 70% chance of surrendering whilst a suppressed squad with 2 men has about 5%. (All of the numbers and % can be changed in the script).

- Surrendering units will drop any weapons they have (including heavy weapon teams) and walk off to an enemy player's map_entry_point.

- The Surrendering units are assigned to a player of the opposite team, so the owner looses their LOS whilst the enemy can see where their new POWs are going.

- The units can be killed, although they cannot be selected or targetted.

- The enemy player that caused the squad to surrender will recieve xp points (the same as if they killed the squad). If the script can't find a player to award the points to, it chooses a random enemy player.

- The script now works on all players, including AI. A bit of code has been put in that prevents the AI from controlling the squad after surrendering. (Only the AI could do it, as human players can't select/order them about)

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=223776&page=1&pp=50


Obviously it should be adjusted for our needs but, I think having infantry surrender under certain circumstances would be beneficial to us.

For starters, due to incremental acc. and suppression modifiers it instantly becomes very risky to blob your units together.

Also, we would see a reduction in those small blobs of depleted AT infantry that have been kept alive and lumped together a period of time, producing a small "rocket men" only type of squad. (3, 2-3man RR squads, or 3, 1-2man schreck squads, etc.)

Reading through the thread, i believe it's possible to make individual squads have their own surrender requirements, so we can make units like KCH never surrender b/c of their elite status.

Custom surrender variables will balance out units that have escapes from suppression like Fire-up, mando smoke, and sprint.

I can also think of many applications for the vet system and the warmap. (taking enemy prisoners effects momentum of warmap)

I think its a really cool idea, and should be tried in the near future to add another element to gameplay.

What's everyone's opinion's on this?

[Akranadas]

What would be the point of surrendering?

[CommanderHolt]

It would a set percentage chance would force the squad to surrender, the player doesn't have a choice in it.

Although... There should be a way for the squad to be rescued if the other team manages to find them all by themselves alone and no escorting captors.

[AmPM]

That would actually be very cool, so you could add elite status to infantry through a morale system as well.

[Grundwaffe]

I picture this just like at that mission at PE campain at Nejmigen bridge or whatever, thoose commandos that surrendered.

It's great in it's way and it's bad in it's way.
For instance; It could be aubused alot, people would do more hardened attacks when they know their unit wil survive anyway because they can surrender.. If that's what you mean, that the green text above the head saying: Troop surrendered; while it's wandering towards enemy offmap check point.

For eir pupose, it should give the enemy some.. i don't know, XP or PP i don't know either of them doesn't sound good for it..

I don't think it will suit EiR but i like the idea as well, i think it will be more abused then used.

Hell yeah i rhymed..

It would a set percentage chance would force the squad to surrender, the player doesn't have a choice in it

I like that idea.

morale system

I don't know, i can picture your gathering a blob of volks with grens but the volks after 1 min of fight gets scared and loose morale and retreat.

That would be more realism i think..

But that takes control away from the players.

So it does, i think it would be best without, great idea thou.

And k, i'll stop insta quoting for now

[Mister Schmidt]

What, so if they surrender you lose the unit from your company, or do you retain it?

[Akranadas]

But that takes control away from the players.

[MittinsKittens]

...Its makes the unit roll by FORCE in the engine...you don't chose too, the units do :3

[Groundfire]

You make it sound as if it's a button you click, arka.


I would think that it adds to the persistence nature of EIRR, offering another more realistic way for units to die, as opposed to the suppression system now where units either retreat, or wait to die pinned.

And also, as i stated in the first post, it creates a more pronounced risk/reward situation with blobbing and single man squads that still have some type of man packed AT, which would probably over time, improve the standard level of skill amongst the players of the mod.

Neglected squads that have been widdled down to 1-2 men while being pinned would surrender to the enemy instead of waiting for the neglectful player to realize his vet squad is hopelessly pinned and retreat it himself.

Edit- woah lots of new posts...

Idk, the mod has been updated frequently. Im sure it could be improved on if we have someone who is good with scar.

[Groundfire]

What, so if they surrender you lose the unit from your company, or do you retain it?

I would think that you'd lose the squad as if it normally died.

But from looking at the thread it seems as if we can customize the criteria for surrender for each unit.

Like for Grenadiers, we could make the surrender criteria be that the unit surrenders after the squad only has 1 member left and is suppressed for 5-7 seconds.

Leaves more than enough time for the player to retreat, but increases the risk that the unit will surrender by trying to crawl away out of the suppression.

That Gren squad could have a 120muni schreck on him, now what would you do if you were in that position?

I think it puts more emphasis on the persistancy, instead of "I have my units fight till i deem them useless then I retreat"
Now you would have to make a calculated decision that is not influenced by the imminent death of the unit.

Edit -I would also think that this makes backcapping more risky, and it allows suppression platforms to preform "backcap cleansing" duties, where as now you must use a dedicated combat unit that has a good chance of outright killing the unit, or making them retreat.

[MittinsKittens]

Wow, I got ninja'd like a bitch...
Guess that serves me right for trying to use these forums on my blackberry.
But yeah, I love the idea of troops surrendering. It would make the mod so much more fun, least for me. The biggest problem I can see with it is, what happens to surrendered vet. I guess the best thing I can think of is that the enemy gets their vet back for free and the person who forced the surrender gets some pp for their troubles (as a trade of hands...), or the enemy has to pay some pp for their vet back which goes towards the person that took them.
Least, that's my idea on it :3
EiR. Fund it.

[EliteGren]

You could buy back surrendered units for PP or something. Lots of possibilities there.

[Groundfire]

WE COULD FUCKING IMPLEMENT PRISONER EXCHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pay a fee in SPs or PPs to get your vet back!!!

[Grundwaffe]

Hehe what about "Ransom" after the battle you get to have a window where you may choose to let the squad be ransomed or killed, if you choose to ransom maybe the enemy would earn some pps?

Im just sayin'

Edit: Dang, elitegren already told the idea

[Ununoctium]

WE COULD FUCKING IMPLEMENT PRISONER EXCHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pay a fee in SPs or PPs to get your vet back!!!

but you have to pay that to buy vet in the first place -_-

just kamikaze anyways and then vet new units

[Akranadas]

I just don't like the idea of players losing control of their units because you happen to force them to surrender before they can retreat them.

[Mister Schmidt]

but you have to pay that to buy vet in the first place -_-

just kamikaze anyways and then vet new units

Can't kamikaze if they surrender :')

And why not do a trial run for a week or so?

[Groundfire]

but you have to pay that to buy vet in the first place -_-

just kamikaze anyways and then vet new units

Well see that just puts more emphasis on the persistence.

You take a trade off for removing the squad earlier from the game for the possiblity that the origonal owner could get the unit back. (maybe at only a percentage of it's starting experience) Shouldnt be too hard to do, just combine the concepts of "commander rerolls" and the "company holding zone" into a button click and you got your system.

If you dont want anything back, let em die, stay captured, w/e. Train up some new recruits.

Im thinking on the grand scale here. We could do Warmap stuff with this, coupled with a "moral system" type idea that AMPM threw out, leading to momentum changes and other type of stuff that

I just don't like the idea of players losing control of their units because you happen to force them to surrender before they can retreat them.

Well it depends on how we would implement an idea such as this.

From what I gather, the amount of suppression put onto a unit wouldnt matter, it just would need to be in that state under the requirement for a set amount of time and instead of the unit outright dieing (b/c if you havent retreated it by now it would be dead) it surrenders, as a player you have the possibility of getting that squad back with a fraction of it's old exp still in place.

I would take that over training up a new squad. (provided we implement it this way, not saying we are, just throwing around ideas)

Like I said, it would be a trade off. For removing a squad earlier from the game than it normally would be, there's a chance of getting the squad back with exp. I think it has great possabilities tbh.

[MittinsKittens]

...Don't give players the chance to kill vet. Seriously, it will leave a bad taste in everyones mouth, it will get nasty I can see, so leave the buying back solly to the person that lost vet to surrender.
And Akra, about losing control, to be honest, you kind of lost control of them when they walked into that mg or whatever suppressed them, this will give people a reason to back out earlier. The only thing I can see if this gets put into the game, is that bars will need balancing to stop supressing loads of units. Will be a bitch if units kept surrendering due to a 60(?) Mu upgrade on rifles.

[Groundfire]

...Don't give players the chance to kill vet. Seriously, it will leave a bad taste in everyones mouth, it will get nasty I can see, so leave the buying back solly to the person that lost vet to surrender.

- The units can be killed, although they cannot be selected or targetted.

So you would pretty much have to put a mortar shot onto the surrendering troops, and even so, the way unit recording works in the mod, I dont think it even matters if the surrendering squad members gets killed b/c the game would automatically registered that you had this 1 squad that died but gives you the condition to get it back for a set cost.

The only thing I can see if this gets put into the game, is that bars will need balancing to stop supressing loads of units. Will be a bitch if units kept surrendering due to a 60(?) Mu upgrade on rifles.

again, not needed because the amount of suppression you put onto a unit is irrelevant until the suppressed/pinned squad meets the requirements for surrender.

You cant overload BAR suppression on a fully manned Gren squad, pin it and make it surrender, your gonna have to kill it down to 1 man and have it pinned before it surrenders. (ie. surrender requirements)

If your in that situation, then you've already lost the unit, and have had gobs of time to make a decision whether to retreat or not.