Evolution: The ramfications of mutations And the necessity for Information

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[Spartan_Marine88]

Of course, you're going to come back and say something to the effect of, "well god could have just put that in there to trick us."
But, first of all, is the Christian god really a malevolent god who would trick us? And if he is, would you really want to worship him? And anyways, doesn't the scientific explanation just make more sense anyways? (Occam's razor ftw)

Why do you assume God has anything to do with any of the various religions on earth, or that he/she/it even realizes our existance?

Why if its a god(s) design does it have to be a trick, if it was true that 1/multiple beings created everything then they would want things such as evolution to follow thier own rules


and last but least, what does it matter anyways if there isn't a god all knowledge/wealth/fame doesn't do you anygood at the end, just got a worm crapping your eaten flesh everywhere and if there is one well then you will probably have a chance to learn all you want

[Voleron]

Why do you assume God has anything to do with any of the various religions on earth, or that he/she/it even realizes our existance?

Because that happens to be the retort that we almost invariably get beaten over our heads with ad infinitum in these debates. Pre-empting it is practically standard procedure for anyone who's argued the "Science!" side of said argument before.

[acker]

and last but least, what does it matter anyways if there isn't a god all knowledge/wealth/fame doesn't do you anygood at the end, just got a worm crapping your eaten flesh everywhere and if there is one well then you will probably have a chance to learn all you want

I sense a terrified mind 

You haven't looked through the telescope, have you? It would explain everything.

[Spartan_Marine88]

I sense a terrified mind 

You haven't looked through the telescope, have you? It would explain everything.

not if you add in quantum physics and just for shits and giggles throw in multiple dimensions

[Masacree]

<3 Voleron. Fight the good fight!

Why do you assume God has anything to do with any of the various religions on earth, or that he/she/it even realizes our existance?

Occam's razor? Any other explanation makes more sense.

Why if its a god(s) design does it have to be a trick, if it was true that 1/multiple beings created everything then they would want things such as evolution to follow thier own rules

It would be a trick because god would be intentionally misleading us by putting evidence for a theory which essentially makes his existence superfluous at best, and perhaps even implies that he doesn't exist (why would god have dolphin fetuses grow legs?)

and last but least, what does it matter anyways if there isn't a god all knowledge/wealth/fame doesn't do you anygood at the end, just got a worm crapping your eaten flesh everywhere and if there is one well then you will probably have a chance to learn all you want

Back to existentialism? Humans create their own meaning in life. I feel that my purpose in life is discovering the way the world works and using that information to improve the lives of those on it. As such I hope to contribute to humanity's knowledge. But, I suppose we are all just dust, if you want to look at it in that way. My advice - find your own meaning in life.

[HexaFighter]

tbh i would love if we found out once and for all that we have  been created by some alien or god or supreme beings or plain physical laws.
although physical laws can act as god altogether, it's less exciting.

as man generally realise its dreams (flying, going deep under water, going in space, finding laws and rules of nature) we will definitly have an answer one day.

[acker]

not if you add in quantum physics and just for shits and giggles throw in multiple dimensions

I said "most-powerful" telescope, not "multi-dimensional, quantum-refracting" telescope. You couldn't hope to see the teapot with one of those.

[Spartan_Marine88]

My advice - find your own meaning in life.

First intellegent thing i have seen in this thread

tbh i would love if we found out once and for all that we have  been created by some alien or god or supreme beings or plain physical laws.
although physical laws can act as god altogether, it's less exciting.

as man generally realise its dreams (flying, going deep under water, going in space, finding laws and rules of nature) we will definitly have an answer one day.

i agree with this, unfortunatly especially these days Religion and science are more like Capatalism and Socialism two sides trying to fight each other for outright dominion neither truly right or wrong.

[HexaFighter]

shameless plug...

ACCEPT THE FACT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAdtQxVA4yc

[Mysthalin]

So, because not having a god and thusly an afterlife would be scary - you'll maintain your belief that God does exist?

Seems an awful lot like you've been terrified into submission. I'm personally of the opinion that it doesn't matter in the least what happens to us when we're dead. If it's heaven/hell - it'll be interesting to explore them. If it's absolutely nothing - it'll be interesting to see what "absolutely nothing" looks like. If it's something entirely different - yet again, it'll be interesting. I look to death as something that's going to be an interesting journey into another realm - or into nothing whatsoever. Either way : fearing death would only hinder me - and thus I just relinquish such fears as non-sensical, and therefore stupid.


I also happen to call myself an existentialist. If you think existentialists are something too hard for you to handle : start off a bit easier : with the "Lost generation". Erich Maria Remarque would be the most notable of these guys : "All Quiet on The Western Front" is written by him.
At any rate - as an existentialist, like Masacree has said : I define my own meaning of life. Mine's fairly simple : be happy. Just live life to accomplish those puny little mortal goals that I put up for myself : have fun with friends, eventually get married, raise children. Life's meaning is as simple as that. Live entirely for the fact that you are alive, and that there's so many wonderful things in the world.

[Smokaz]

Remarque is exellent, also he has a book by the name of "three brothers/companions or something"

[Mysthalin]

You'll be reffering to "Three Camarades", I think?

Yep, excellent book.

[SX23]

I must say that I'm quite annoyed. This topic was for the sole purpose to have a scientific view that counteracts the evolution. And as for now, I did not have any response to what I previously posted. However, while I'm gone for a few hours, some of you decided to integer some moral aspects and such. I believe there is already a thread to talk about this : --> http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=15945.0
If you are not content with what is already stated, please do create another topic but do NOT polluted a science-based argumentation with moral view's.


And a last insight for Hexa, thanks for staying on topic.
That said, mutation can be based off three things: Duplicates of what is already existing, therefor leading to non-essential energy waste, DNA breaking or having mistakes in reproduction, leading to loss of data for the profit of new, which would need hundreds of other modifications to cope with, or radiation poising and mutation through life which are eliminated or lead to cancer in an individual. In all cases, those mutation do not lead to a better survival.

And a last comment: I am not trying to enforce Creationist or even a god's existence. I'm only stating that the current theory of life's apparition, the evolution, is mistaken in some parts.

[brn4meplz]

Mutation through Radiation is beneficial. It causes cancer in the immediate genetic strain but the affects of a cancerous growth are minute in comparison the the genetic survival of the species. As I said before the relatively high levels of radiation in our solar system are part of the reason we are where we are now.(I use relative in relation to us, not relative in relation to anything else)

Even along the lines of Duplicate DNA can act as a sort of redundancy system genetic safety net. and the Break of DNA can result in a genetic difference X cycles down the road. Mutation isn't a bad thing it's just not understood. It's a necessary process that leads to adaptation which leads to survival

[Smokaz]

The real question then moves it's ugly head:

 Do we carry our genes, or do THEY carry us?

 Also "physical laws - The God" strikes me as a sound deity. Currently more or less unknowable in its entirety, motives are as hard to gauge as any God, doesn't talk down the peasants or entertain actions of hypocrisy. Doesn't interfere, just makes the ground rules and lets everything go from there. Doesn't bother with a scripture, let's you discover the laws yourself and lend the meaning of your choice to it.

[Malevolence]

I wonder if anyone in here realizes evolution as a theory does not actually account for the initial origin of species but only for their subsequent development...

[brn4meplz]

Everyone in here does

[AmPM]

I wonder if anyone in here realizes evolution as a theory does not actually account for the initial origin of species but only for their subsequent development...

Evolution being acknowledged does not mean there is no "god", and there being a "god" does not discredit evolution.

Now, where things came from originally is the real question to ask. Not our species, but the universe as a whole and any beings in it or outside of it.

[SX23]

If a congress with mathematical heads will be attended by evolutionists to ask this very precise question: Could mutations serve as the basis—with natural selection—as a mechanism for evolutionary change?

And if the answer of this congress would be that due to sole mathematics and probabilities it's impossible, would it changes anyone mind on the subject?

[Malevolence]

Everyone in here does

Can't agree more with that, if people would really think hard about the human body, and realize that it couldn't just form randomly considering each individual cell is so complex and everything in the body works together perfectly..it's practically common sense that evolution is false.

This guy doesn't and he was the first response. *shrug*


The "swiss watch" argument is reasonably persuasive, but ultimately not really relevant to evolution.