Vet Rework

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[Tymathee]

and still no one really makes any suggestions lol.

this is kinda difficult though, bob really restricted us, tho i agree that having damage is silly, but can you change the critical chance of a weapon to do a kill at green/yellow/red health?

like can i make is so at vet 3 riflemen have a 10% chance of killing a squad at yellow health regardless of health?

[Tymathee]

Just a couple other ideas I'm having that I wonder if it's possible to change

Additional Squad Members
Detection Radius
Weapon Change
Weapon Scatter
Capture Rate
LT like aura
Lower movement penalties (water, yellow/green cover)
Add mine detection
Add camo
Add Booby Trap detection
Change burst rate for weapons that burst (BAR, Hmg, etc)
Ability recharge rate
For arty - scatter radius (like priest has lower scatter than howie, can this be changed)
Change AOE for splash weapons.
Less chance of infantry scatter, or none (sniper, howie, mortar)
Adding poison shot (u shoot target, has small health deterioration) prolly more of a doc thing.
Unit becomes invisible on warmap but no camo on field.
(would be a neat global ability like a reverse recon run)
Lower aim time (time it takes for weapon to fire first shot)
Set up time for weapon teams
faster suppression recover
fire on move accuracy
turn speed

woo, more than i originally thought of but a nice list none the less.

[Speigass]

I like cover usage improvement for both inf and tanks. This way we could emulate and promote unit specific fighting style.

For instance:
Vet 3 rifles - 10% less incoming acc in yellow cover
Vet 3 grens - 15 % less incoming acc in green cover
Vet 4 tommies - 10 % less incoming dmg and acc in trenches
Vet 2 pgrens - 10 % less incoming acc in buildings

vet 4 stug - 15 % less incoming penetration in cover
vet 2 hetzer - 10 % less incoming acc in cover
vet 3 shreman - 10 % less incoming acc when moving

and so on

[AmPM]

Bob, you can have both Offensive and Defensive bonuses on a unit and not have it broken.

It's when you stack vet on top of things that already make them tougher that it gets wonky.

AB Armor + AB vet dodge bonus for instance.

Why shouldn't a vet 3 gren be an overall upgrade to a vet 0 gren? Vet 3 Sherman should overall be better as well. The reason vet is useful is that it makes your units better pretty much all around by the time you get to vet 3.

Not to mention, stacking only say, + damage bonuses onto vet breaks the game. Infantry vet easy, so who wants to play against a blob of stuff that instakills anything you send at it. Better to have -15% accuracy, +hp and + damage than + damage + damage + damage.

Speigass, Cover usage would be great, but very map dependent. Not to mention too many incoming accuracy bonuses in cover = nearly invulnerable in cover.


Balancing vet has more to do with numbers, and less to do with where those numbers apply.

[Speigass]

Cover bonuses on infantry are easilly negated by nades,flames, splash and indirect. Vannila rifles to rifles firefights are rare anyway, even better it would promote grenade usage.

After all once we got doctrines we might balance vet to avoid op

[AmPM]

Either way, this should definitely come AFTER the doctrine rework, the debacle is more than enough to chew on right now.

[Tymathee]

I'd rather not see damage bonuses in any type of vet and let them only be from doctrines.

Now, reload and cooldown bonuses yes. Because as a soilder gets more experienced, he should be able to learn how to fire his gun faster and reload it faster.

Cooldown makes more sense on rifled weapons like the garand, carbine, pistol, kar, lee etc.

and not so much so on automatic weapons like smgs and mp44's because they're already going full auto and have a locked firing speed as you hold down the trigger, the gun cant just shoot faster all of a sudden but u can reload it faster as u get comfortable with the gun.

There's also larger clip sizes, like u can add a drum onto an mp44, mp40, tommy, bar and get twice the ammo so you'd have a larger clip size but a slower reload (larger drum = heavier, takes a bit longer to reload)

Accuracy is definitely something u can add.

I've always wanted to see an ability called "Ironsights" where your speed is slowed like you're walking slow but you get the same accuracy as if you're standing still.

I'd say it'd be the same speed as an axis player using medkits.  This can be a universal ability for all infantry that they can use once at a high vet

[LeoPhone]

there is no point in making the vet make sense since the game itself doesnt even make sense! knights cross surviving a sniper headshot while grenadiers dont? you can keep going on forever

[AmPM]

Why do people think the sniper is doing headshots?

He could just be doing body shots too, especially in a battlefield where he is on the front lines.

[AmPM]

You know, the more we work on making everything the same, the less fun this mod gets...

[Nimitz]

This is really just a pointless waste of time. Vet is FINE at the moment (imo).

[AmPM]

Vet really is pretty ok right now, a few tweaks and it would be good.

Same with the doctrines though TBH. Most of them are fine.

Terror could use a couple items moved around, Luft needs to be looked at, some of the PE don't work, RCA needs to be made.

[Hicks58]

Commandos needs some major help. >.>

[LeoPhone]

u forgot ab. oh, and make the kangaroo a t3

[Hicks58]

Just sod the Roo off altogether tbh.

It's really not a necessary unit, and this is speaking as an Allied player lol.

[AmPM]

Mando's is bad, but thats more due to the cost of Mando's than the doctrine I think. The doctrine is actually very powerful as seen by Mando RD companies.

AB other than easy company needing minor tweaks and AW being broken is just fine.

Roo should just be locked at 2 per company.

[Hicks58]

Somebody should run a test and give Commandos Elite armour and see what happens when used against various units.

If anything, it should provide entertainment value to see them compared to standard Commandos.

[Mysthalin]

Soldier armour > Elite Armour in nearly every possible situation imaginable.

Just sayin'.

[AmPM]

All Mando's need is a slight price change. The unit itself stands up quite well with smoke, grenades and Stens. Trust me on that one.

But they are a scalpel and need to be used as such, run in, gut the enemy support, assault with tommy blob.

I'm all for allowing them more weapon options, like starting with rifles, and then have upgrades for Stens like Stormies have for MP44.

Choose to get 3 stens and then add on the second batch if you want more.

[Hicks58]

Soldier armour > Elite Armour in nearly every possible situation imaginable.

Just sayin'.

In which case, why are Commandos so paper thin compared to every other elite Infantry, with perhaps the exception of Fallschrimjager?