[Final] 6p_Road_to_Paris

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Unkn0wn]

I'm always open for suggestions. Right now I'm not sure what needs changing. I didn't intend to make it look too realistic, I just made this map because I always wanted one like this. This is easly on par with Tanteville if you ask me.

You should never forget to be modest :p.

[Masacree]

Right now your map looks like a more or less random collection of worldbuilder objects all put together on one area.

This is pretty much the problem. Also l2splat. How many splats are on this map? Like 50? Try 100x or more.

Makes me cringe. Also, mappers are the worst judges of their own maps.

This is easly on par with Tanteville if you ask me.

xD

[EliteGren]

As a general rule of life, don't judge things before you tried them. I don't see the problem in putting in random things on random places. I mean it is WAR, things are just there, no questions asked. I might look into making it a little bit more like a real town for you realism-junkies, but from a gameplay perspective I believe it is gonna be great, considering I mostly got positive feedback from most players so far. The bugs mentioned are already out of the way, now it's fine-tuning time.

[Masacree]

I'm criticizing the quality of the map-making, not the design. Make the map meld together. Right now it looks like someone took a flat desk and put objects on it. Use heightmapping and splats to make the objects fit. As it stands it looks like an incredibly clean city with a bunch of random objects sitting. Every object should have a story behind it. You should be able to explain what happened to each destroyed tank lying on the road, how each inhabitant of any individual house commutes, what created the crater that sent a stack of boxes flying.

Try something like this:


You want to give the impression of a city that has evolved for hundreds of years. Streets go everywhich way, houses are crowded together above cobbled roads. Bridges and height play a large influence ect. The fields need to be far more interesting. I know they're just fields, but every individual field has its own ditches and beaten paths. Why are the two destroyed shermans facing each other? Did they shoot each other? Why are there farm houses in the city and city houses in the farms?

As far as game design goes, as people have already pointed out, inside the city pathing looks atrocious for vehicles, infantry, and ATG's. Long splines of low walls are hella annoying, and fuck over infantry/ATG's. The groves need shotblockers in them, the fields need cover. Use the pathing view mode to see how awful your map will be for inf.

I think I've hit on all the major points? So,

Once more, with feeling!

[deadbolt]

splats are ur friendzzzz

[LeoPhone]

As a general rule of life, don't judge things before you tried them. I don't see the problem in putting in random things on random places. I mean it is WAR, things are just there, no questions asked. I might look into making it a little bit more like a real town for you realism-junkies, but from a gameplay perspective I believe it is gonna be great, considering I mostly got positive feedback from most players so far. The bugs mentioned are already out of the way, now it's fine-tuning time.

same rule applies to you.
you judge the map instantly perfect and add it to the autoupdater.
other mappers went trough a lot of hard work trying to get their map added. unkown is the map lead, he will judge when a map is ready.

[Masacree]

Mapping comes from the heart not the brain.

Amirite mappers?

[RoyalHants]

Maps only feel ready when theyve been tested mine is coming on nicely but without testing it it might be horrible a map should be made with almost constant testing thats what makes a nice map imo

[Unkn0wn]

Anyway, I'll let the people be the judge now.
If it's the next Tanteville like you said, I'm sure I'll start noticing everyone asking me to play Paris

[Groundfire]

Oh god the irony in this thread  

EG, massacree's critique sounds rather concrete and informative, i like how he describes a map to be an impressionist painting.

I would suggest taking a step back analyzing all the critique and give the map another once over with all that in mind.

[LeoPhone]

Masacree u r not totally right. you do need to use your brain for mapping since the map must provide good gameplay. even for paintings you need your brain. if you want to make it look right you must understand how reflections, wind and all that stuff works.

[Masacree]

Masacree u r not totally right. you do need to use your brain for mapping since the map must provide good gameplay. even for paintings you need your brain. if you want to make it look right you must understand how reflections, wind and all that stuff works.

Spartan never thought a second about gameplay when he made his maps.

But regardless I agree that you should plan your maps out ahead of time. Think about gameplay. Map making itself though, that comes from the heart. The trick is creating a symmetrical map gameplay wise using asymmetrical objects. Other concerns include keeping pathing and infantry accessibility good and placing shotblockers well. but the choice of the objects, the feeling you are trying to create, the painting itself, that comes from the heart.

[Killer344]

same rule applies to you.
you judge the map instantly perfect and add it to the autoupdater.
other mappers went trough a lot of hard work trying to get their map added. unkown is the map lead, he will judge when a map is ready.

He didn't add it to the autoupdater, because he can't.

[Unkn0wn]

He didn't add it to the autoupdater, because he can't.

You did for him, you shouldn't have so quickly. Unless you want to start adding everyone's first attempt at mapping. (Which quite frankly is against our policy)

Trust me, after a few more maps Elitegren (and any other new mapper for that matter) will look back on his first creation and realise how much he's improved and how poor his first map was in comparison to the later work he created.

I said it's good for a first map, but that's just what it is, a first map. Mapping takes practice, the first 2 - 3 maps are usually just practice runs.

I don't believe in first-time miracles.

[Killer344]

Bob did it.

Anyway, it's just 10mb, you can't expect people to do it manually.

[Unkn0wn]

I don't care, "it's just 10mb" quickly becomes "it's just 100 mb" when 10 people make a first time map.
And then they make a second, and a third and before you know it we are up to 300mb of these maps that nobody ends up playing.

Our policy is clear, you create a map that is both good in gameplay and graphics, a map that would easily fit in with the Relic maps, and your map gets added to the autoupdater. No offence, but first time maps are never "great" in this regard, they're testruns. Once a new mapper has a few attempts under his belly he'll find himself getting every map he makes from then on accepted into the autoupdater without too much issue.

Surely you can understand, this policy becomes meaningless if we start making exceptions.
(Salan knows, I didn't make any exceptions for him in the past for example. And he may call that harsh, but at least I'm trying to keep this fair)

Either way, it's already in the autoupdater now so it's staying in for a bit.

[EliteGren]

I'll try to follow some of that advice. It's hard to keep so many things in mind when you just learned how to place things in the WB a day ago. I tried to tell a few stories behind some objects. You see chairs infront of pianos, a messed up cafe with broken tables and chairs that were once standing. A dead soldier sticking out of a destroyed car that looks like it crashed into a barricade. Dead tankcrews that tried to escape out of their burning tank and got shot on the way out.

It's my first map, getting the feel on how things should look like comes with time and patience. Also since I started the Map campaign thing myself I'm gonna keep an eye on which maps get added just like you are, we don't want maps to be bad and not played. Pointing out what's wrong and fixing it should be done with every single map that we add.

[Unkn0wn]

The best advice for any mapper is probably to open some of the Relic maps in the WB and find out for yourself how much detail (splat/splines/objects/tiling) one truly has to put into a map for it to look 'great'.

In addition, looking at Relic maps (or some of the better EIR maps) will also give you a good understanding of the mapping process in general.

Everything else will come from experience (Being able to use all the tools available to you and making a map really look good) and game-knowledge (Making a map that is good in gameplay.)

[salan]

I said it's good for a first map, but that's just what it is, a first map. Mapping takes practice, the first 2 - 3 maps are usually just practice runs.

I don't believe in first-time miracles.

That's not what you said to skunker when you made him a map partner after his water map was 'previewed' and never played

I guess ya live and learn, thou that one still makes me (and probably ampm) laugh!

[AmPM]

Yea, that was lols.

On the plus side, my first map is still in and frustrating the shit out of the unprepared.