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Author Topic: [US] M18 Hellcat  (Read 19230 times)
0 Members and 20 Guests are viewing this topic.
NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2011, 10:34:15 am »

so the tank is only good if you purchase the hawkins mine upgrade? 

IT still can;t take on a P4 reliably.

thus it only costs 165 fuel.
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Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2011, 10:45:52 am »

Numbah crunch time (All to two decimal places).

Hellcat penetration rates without HVAP:

Panther: L - 16% M - 22% S - 26%
Tiger: L - 22% M - 30.25% S - 35.75%
Jagd: L - 16.99% M - 23.36% S -27.61%
PIV: L - 43.6% M - 59.95% S - 70.85%
Stug: L - 24% M - 33% S - 39%
Hetzer: L - 40% M - 55% S - 65%

Now for the Hellcat penetration rates with HVAP:

Panther: L - 21.28% M - 29.26% S - 34.58%
Tiger: L - 29.26% M - 40.23% S - 47.55%
Jagd: L - 22.59% M - 31.07% S - 36.72%
PIV: L - 57.99% M - 79.73% S - 94.23%
Stug: L - 31.92% M - 43.89% S - 51.87%
Hetzer: L - 53.2% M - 73.15% S - 86.45%

And there you have it people. Going by these numbers, without use of ambush, your hellcat is still going to suck against anything but PIV's and Hetzers with HVAP. However, a pair of Hellcats with HVAP chasing down a Tiger just *Might* do something if they can close to short range.

If somebody points out where the Hellcat ambush bonuses are in the RGD's, I'll also throw up a table of penetration for ambushing as well.

Oh, and I've also heard that apparently, the HVAP might not even be linked properly for Hellcats, and may not be working. Considering how few people use Hellcats, and how (Relatively) insignificant the increase is against most targets is without ambush, I can see how such a thing could have been overlooked lol.
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I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
puddin Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1701



« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2011, 10:51:15 am »

Ok the problem is stugs then... An 8 pop cap tank with no turret and you can;t penetrate it at short range... 

I look at the name, Tank hunter and i just feel no one fears it ever. 

I almost feel as tho it should be able to buy some kind of AP round upgrade so it would have the aboility to penetrate, but cost additional similar to the 57 so that it would make more sense as a tank hunter.

The price can stay the same... TRhe wonky terrible pathing can stay, but at least it can be used as an tank hunter.
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Puddin' spamtm
i cant really blame smokaz i mean playing against puddin is like trying to fight off breast cancer. You might win and do it and be a bad ass but you'll feel sick and mutilated forever.

Puddin' spamtm is soulcrushing... what's hard to understand about that?
LeoPhone Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 0


« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2011, 10:53:13 am »

ambush bonus is here:

attrib\attrib\ebps\races\allies\_europeinruins\vehicles\m18_hellcat\GameData\camouflage_ext\first_strike_actions

x1.5 dmg
x2.0 pen
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2011, 10:54:21 am »

Hellcat ambush penetration rates without HVAP:

Panther: L - 32% M - 44% S - 52%
Tiger: L - 44% M - 60.5% S - 75.5%
Jagd: L - 33.98% M - 46.72% S - 55.22%
PIV: L - 87.2% M - 119.9% S - 141.7%
Stug: L - 48% M - 66% S - 78%
Hetzer: L - 80% M - 110% S - 130%

Now for the Hellcat ambush penetration rates with HVAP (with taking into account the extra 25% penetration from the doctrine at the final calculation):

Panther: L - 53.2% M - 73.15% S - 86.45%
Tiger: L - 73.15% M - 100.6% S - 118.9%
Jagd: L - 56.48% M - 77.67% S - 91.8%
PIV: L - 140% M - 199.3% S - 235.6%
Stug: L - 79.8% M - 109.7% S - 129.7%
Hetzer: L - 133% M - 182.9% S - 216.1%

Right, taking a quick glance at this, without HVAP, ambush penetration sucks unless your targetting a PIV or a Hetzer. With HVAP, it becomes almost reliable against Panthers and Jagds, but is still clumsy. Against Tigers and Stugs it'll be worth risking trying an ambush shot without a doubt.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 11:24:30 am by Hicks58 » Logged
tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2011, 11:27:29 am »

ambush bonus is here:

attrib\attrib\ebps\races\allies\_europeinruins\vehicles\m18_hellcat\GameData\camouflage_ext\first_strike_actions

x1.5 dmg
x2.0 pen

That's impressive Leo. You found that information in less than 8 minutes!!!! Assuming it probably took you a couple of minutes to see the post, read it and reply, that is freaken awesome.....

Carry on. There's nothing more to see here.
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Tymathee Offline
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2011, 11:28:39 am »

Then it gets 25% more damage with havap . so 140. Then there's the mutipliers vs certain tanks, so the m18 CAN be fun
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2011, 11:36:11 am »

See above for the ambush penetration rates with and without HVAP.

^
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RikiRude Offline
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2011, 12:57:49 pm »

i just got hvap, so ill give m18s a whirl with them, i feel that i'll be disappointed, but we will see what happens.
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Quote from: Killer344
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... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
Tymathee Offline
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2011, 01:06:51 pm »

See above for the ambush penetration rates with and without HVAP.

^

i saw the penetration rates, i was expressing the damage. Thus why I started it off with "then it gets"
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2011, 01:09:25 pm »

My post wasn't aimed at anybody in particular Tym.

Riki, you should be warned that it's possible HVAP is not currently linked to Hellcats, thus it may not work.

If you attempt to ambush shoot a Tiger and nothing happens twice in a row, chances are it's borked.
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Uglysori Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 301

The very best player of one of the four factions.

« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2011, 01:12:45 pm »

In relation to the values listed with Stugs, shouldn't one also take acct the rear penetration values since Hellcats should be circling to try get side and rear shots off given the range and speed advantage.   
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Tymathee Offline
Donator
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2011, 01:15:44 pm »

My post wasn't aimed at anybody in particular Tym.

Riki, you should be warned that it's possible HVAP is not currently linked to Hellcats, thus it may not work.

If you attempt to ambush shoot a Tiger and nothing happens twice in a row, chances are it's borked.

No, it's there. go to hell cat
camo/first strike/ability actions/action 2 and thats the upgrade. It doesn't get the passive upgrade, only the first strike other wise it would stack.

if u look at req table, it says it needs AP round upgrade for it to work.

it gets
250% penetration (2.5)
150% damage (1.5)
125% accuracy  (1.25)
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RikiRude Offline
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2011, 01:16:47 pm »

In relation to the values listed with Stugs, shouldn't one also take acct the rear penetration values since Hellcats should be circling to try get side and rear shots off given the range and speed advantage.    

hellcat is more of a find a target, cloak, take a shot, then move back and do it again kind of vehicle. there's no real point in going 1v1 and following through with an attack.

I think its in, firesparks was saying hvap rounds should be working now last night on the launcher... though he didnt specifically say "yes they are working for hellcats" hmm either way ill use them get readjusted to them again.
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Tymathee Offline
Donator
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2011, 01:19:40 pm »

hellcat is more of a find a target, cloak, take a shot, then move back and do it again kind of vehicle. there's no real point in going 1v1 and following through with an attack.

I think its in, firesparks was saying hvap rounds should be working now last night on the launcher... though he didnt specifically say "yes they are working for hellcats" hmm either way ill use them get readjusted to them again.

loook above u
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2011, 03:10:25 pm »

loook above u


76mm_Hellcat_gun_HVAP is the gun with the HVAP stats. It is not linked to the M18 that I can find.

If you read HVAP the doctrine ability, it says ALL tanks get the bonus, and the Hellcat gets an ambush bonus as well. Note that this bonus to all tanks includes the M10.
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Tymathee Offline
Donator
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2011, 03:52:42 pm »

ahh okay, so it changes the gun, sweet
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spinn72 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1802



« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2011, 05:32:32 pm »

Only a 22% chance to Pen a Tiger from the front.. that's odd, I penetrated 4 shots in a row from max range on what was the start of side armour!
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2011, 08:23:33 pm »

HVAP isn't working for the Hellcat and I've more or less confirmed it. I've had 2 Ambush shots bounce a PIV, and it was vet 1, so it had no incoming penetration modifiers.

HVAP Ambush at long range is 140% chance for penetration soo... Broken methinks.
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RikiRude Offline
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2011, 08:52:29 pm »

firesparks told me last night it should be working =/
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