Panzer Grens

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[Malgoroth]

I'm not understanding why you guys are using allied MGs as suppression tools when they suck at that role. they're better for damage. And regardless of what faction you are, MGs should always be supported by an infantry squad. This would make sprinting through the burst without being suppressed a non issue since they would be about dead by the time they got passed the MG anyway. At the very least they wouldn't escape alive.

I have no opinion on this issue honestly, but you shouldn't be expecting your MG to solo anything.
That's like me arguing "A P4 charged my ATG and circle strafed it! Nerf P4 armor!!! If it charges an unsupported ATG it should still die!!!"

[lionel23]

I personally find Pgrens to be way too good for their cost.  They will hands down beat riflemen, they can SUPPRESS infantry with their G43.. had a game (will post a shot later) of a single G43 and a gren squad suppressing and raping a rifle squad.... hell, you do that with bars and you either suppress or dmg, not both.

Also for high HP and, more importantly, low pool, you can spam many of these suckers and short of a vehicle or rangers, there is no way to really fight them one on one unless he runs into an MG... and sprint on basic infantry I'd smack the guy who thought that was a good idea?! It's practically a no penalty version of fire-up on BASIC infantry.  Imagine if riflemen had that, axis would have a field day on the forums with that, yet that's what allies are fighting and its utterly negating support weapons unless spammed en mass (ask Panda when we had 9 vickers and 4 HMGs on the field JUST to stop PE infantry, and even then they sprint in and nade then throw AT nades or rapid rifle vanilla squads to decrew everything).

Saw some 'interesting' gameplay in the last game I played with 8thRifle, showing him how powerful Pgrens were.. he charges sten infantry at them, 1 squad and later 2 squads at a time at VANILLA pairs of Pgrens, he gets utterly raped and doesnt kill anyone... that's 260 MU investment against.. none?  Isn't the reason M1 'carbines' was removed cause of the massive dmg buff it gave for free OP?  Yet grens get nasty high HP soldiers, better armor, a free G43 (which I think a double buff to +1 to squads AND better dps was not needed) and riflemen can't even touch them, and with slow (which is suppose to be fixed where a single guy can't 'use' it on a squad and run away.. what happened to 'locking the squad down' in fire mode to prevent that?), the cheapest AT weapon in teh game at 20 MU... sprint for a few measly MP (still raking in below Rangers) and you got one of the best infantry in the game.

I had no problem with these buffs prior to the mass nerfing of allies... taking tet smoke away for useless sherman smoke which negates the T3 bonus of having them move to 'stand' in smoke and blinding themselves for a weak tank, removing one SMG from bazooka rangers cause it was too powerful but yet all PGrens get a G43 that is buffed?  Nerfing TR hardcore for bazooka users and adding a not-needed stummel.. I mean its nice to have a new unit, but that thing utterly rapes infantry way, way too well, and decrews ATGs in 1 or 2 shots, is a threat to tanks and can fight light vehicles... that's just overboard, same with the leig which I think needs to be toned down again.

I've been playing way more axis since they were the underdog faction, now it's just way too easy to win with them and allies are getting the nerf stick... can we stick to buffing both sides instead of tearing one down and raising the other and throwing balance off?

At least, give allied infantry a chance to fight basic PE infantry, and I also agree that the MG for US really needs to do suppression instead of dmg in light of the mass availability of sprint on all PE basic inf.. where they can run up and gun down MGs and ATGs instantly with their fast firing rifles, ridiculousness. My 2 cents, doubt anyone will listen or agree with me, but just thought it needed to be said.

I'll make another post, seperate thread sometime tomorrow just with these points so if others want to discuss they can, I just thought this needed to be said because I'm very concerned the direction this mod and balance is taking and I find it really worrying.. but since i'm not a team member I've been well just keeping quiet about this, but enough is enough sometimes, you know?

[NightRain]

Yes I do expect my 240 manpower infantry squad to rape a 200 manpower roflsquad. Did you meantion that there were 2? G43 and grenadier squad? 480 manpower and 60 mun spraying at your 200 squad. Oh my. OP!

Their armor...OP? Homy. Give them Soldier armor back PLEASE! Infantry armor is so shit

[lionel23]

When I say grenadier, I mean strict Pgrens, forgot the P.  was a 3 PE company build, no Wehr players, so yeah I call OP on that.  Notice this thread is about Pgrens, so I figure saying Grens its pretty obvious I'm only talking about these guys and not going off-topic.  Normal PE Pgrens are too powerful and cost effective for what they are, their pool value needs to go up or a major cost adjustment needs to be done.

And their Armor is OP when riflemen get melted and can't cause casualties without losing 6 guys for everyone 1 Pgren

[NightRain]

When I say grenadier, I mean strict Pgrens, forgot the P.  was a 3 PE company build, no Wehr players, so yeah I call OP on that.  Notice this thread is about Pgrens, so I figure saying Grens its pretty obvious I'm only talking about these guys and not going off-topic.  Normal PE Pgrens are too powerful and cost effective for what they are, their pool value needs to go up or a major cost adjustment needs to be done.

And their Armor is OP when riflemen get melted and can't cause casualties without losing 6 guys for everyone 1 Pgren

You still do realize that they are just WM Grenadiers with shittier DPS?

[Malgoroth]

BAR rifle > G43 Pgren in a 1v1 situation.

G43 Pgren > unupgraded/nade rifle

Sooo... I'd expect the more expensive squad with a gun upgrade to beat the rifle squad yeah.

[lionel23]

You still do realize that they are just WM Grenadiers with shittier DPS?

But much higher HP, which offsets their cheap pool costs.

[Malgoroth]

Don't you have work tomorrow?

Fanboy

Rifles are 3 pool cost also and cheaper in manpower costs.

[NightRain]

But much higher HP, which offsets their cheap pool costs.

They have exactly same ammount of HPs than WM Grenadiers, and they are cheap from pool because it is the only standard inf squad they get? No volks you see.

[RikiRude]

To help prove lionels point, the other day I had two nilla rifle squads, one vet 1, I have the top T3 and bottom T3 in infantry, to bottom gives rifles 50% more accuracy, and -10% incoming accuracy when on the move chasing two nilla PG squads, the PGs raped me, now if I had killed a couple it wouldnt be a big deal, but I didn't even kill one. It was weird, I asked my opponent if they had any upgrades or doctrine buffs on their PG and they said "lol no" I was perplexed. They are way too strong for basic main line infantry. Also saying they are just grens its no big deal, it is a big deal when they have sprint. Give rifles vet 2 sticky range at vet 0 and see how axis like that.

Also you know what's a good counter to PG? A sniper. You know what's good at chasing a sniper? A sprinting PG squad. Supporting your mg isn't going to stop the PG from tossing a nade and killing or crippling your mg, also, that mg is going to have to reposition in the middle of combat. I do agree that PG needed a buff, but it was over done imo.

[AmPM]

I'm still curious, they are much less durable than an AB or Ranger squad, yet I have no trouble stopping those.

They are basically vanilla grens with different weapons and the ability to sprint. Which is actually not as good as say, Fireup in getting the fuck out.

[Malgoroth]

I haven't seen PGs rape out of sheer OPitude personally. If someone would post a replay of PGs sodomizing rifles to prove their point - that'd be awesome. I'm open to changing my mind, but I want to see what the shit people are talking about firsthand.

[NightRain]

I haven't seen PGs rape out of sheer OPitude personally. If someone would post a replay of PGs sodomizing rifles to prove their point - that'd be awesome. I'm open to changing my mind, but I want to see what the shit people are talking about firsthand.

+1

[Mister Schmidt]

Leave me pgrens alone ffs, everytime I start doing something new it gets nerfed :/ Not fair! Seriously though, as an avid pe player, I will agree on one thing - the sprint not needed till vet 2. Because now I can't sprint after tanks with magnetic at nades, and that is lame.

[nugnugx]

I haven't seen PGs rape out of sheer OPitude personally. If someone would post a replay of PGs sodomizing rifles to prove their point - that'd be awesome. I'm open to changing my mind, but I want to see what the shit people are talking about firsthand.

Because they don't , it's only in Tyms mind.

[nugnugx]

the other day I had two nilla rifle squads

If anyone got beaten  2 vs 2  vanilla pgrens vs  rifles , than its working as intended and nothing to see here , move along.

They are basically vanilla grens

[TheVolskinator]

You guys are dysfunctional (fyi).

PGrens being OP? -cough- the vcoh prick (me) remembers them being OP, nothing is new here. Get 2 HMGs to cover eachother or a ranger squad to chew them up when they run up to point blank to nade them. Or if you're a scrooge, you can just get roflmen with grease guns. But come on, if anyone didnt know, in vcoh spring set your suppression threshhold to 0 (same as fireup). You couldnt get supressed while it was active, but it wouldnt break supp. like Fire Up. This seems to be the case here; just have a unit covering your MG to out DPS him. Nothing like getting a vanilla/BAR rifle to the face when you bumrush an mg. L2flank. On that note, BARs and Supp fire arent OP; only when spammed. I run my platoons on a 1-in-three-basis; 1 BAR to 3 rifle squads. It works fine, and it avoids lucicrous QQ from double LMG-gren-spamming axis players; those with sniper-firing marksman grenspam or shreckblobs also stfu. Wait, I couldn't possibly be complaing about zombie gren armies, could I?...

[panzerman]

volks why do you keep going to vcoh balance when it has nothing to do with the balance in EiRR?

[Mysthalin]

Lol EiRR Balance discussions.

[Demon767]

Guys have to adapt to a new environment.

last time i remember, everyone was crying how weak pzgrens are, now they are suddenly strong?  weak argument more-like

support your HMG'sand get used to a new style of playing coh against PE.

Panzer elite are no longer the poormans faction.. but are actually *GASP* Elite.