HMG

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[vonsteph]

The allied HMG is definitely to weak, it has weak supression range and dmg.
im always getting overan by other infantry which run straight into the mg and still come close enough to grenade or pass the mg, thats weird.
Seriously, infantry that run straight into a mg on open field and survive? wtf?
Increasing range and supression/dmg would be a great deal. It would also stop that noobish blobing tactics ( you know these kch^^  )

[NightRain]

And it has the highest damage due to its accuracy and it only costs 20 munitions. I'm expecting it to be a MG42. BUFF PL0X!

[smurfORnot]

it is not weak,it kills better than mg42...

lol,so after BattleBulls rage droped,and those 2 KHC killed that hmg,u say it's up. Seems 20mun too much,lulz

[RoyalHants]

Tbh its not the HMG its the sprint inspired assualt etc etc which makes HMGs redundant and only hand held relitavley usefull

[DarkSoldierX]

KCH have natural surpression resistance anyway.

[Killer344]

How many times do we have to kill these myths.....

The US HMG doesn't do more "damage", it takes longer to supress = the enemy units don't get the bonuses from being supressed.

[DarkSoldierX]

Kno wut.

When I get back home in about 9 hours I will calculate mg42 and .30 cal dps.

If somone wants to calculate it for us go ahead, because I wont be able to for a while.

[NightRain]

How many times do we have to kill these myths.....

The US HMG doesn't do more "damage", it takes longer to supress = the enemy units don't get the bonuses from being supressed.

And it has the highest damage due to its accuracy and it only costs 20 munitions. I'm expecting it to be a MG42. BUFF PL0X!

This means simply this: When infantry is NOT suppressed they take mostly full accuracy but once they are suppressed they recieve less accuracy. Therefore the .30 cal does more damage due to its good accuracy => it kills better

[Killer344]

I summon the Mysthalin to fight this non-sense.

Regardless of who's right, your use of logic just made me puke tbh.

[Unkn0wn]

Tbh its not the HMG its the sprint inspired assualt etc etc which makes HMGs redundant and only hand held relitavley usefull

This. (Albeit in better spelling)

And the .30 has higher accuracy indeed, thus also deals out more damage overall. But it also has shorter range and significantly worse suppression, arguably the 2 most important aspects of an HMG. Hence why it's priced significantly cheaper. Personally, I'll take quads over allied HMGs any day.

[smurfORnot]

usually when there was mg42 in house against .30cal in a house ... .30 would win from my experience,unless u had focus fire on mg42

[vonsteph]

KCH have natural surpression resistance anyway.

Although they have supression resistance i think it should not enable to overran a well placed hmg. Also the Kch were just an example, most of the infantry can overwhelm it or atleast just crawl near enough to throw grenades.
I think thats also a problem for the mg42 though this does quicker supression.
Generally i think its stupid if infantry just overran an mg facing it directly, wheres the tactics like flanking it or clearing the crew with sniper/mortar before u move up with infantry?

[Mysthalin]

Since I have 2 essays due in a very short period of time with subsequent exams coming up, I'm only providing the short form stats-crunch.

I'm taking into account only long-range damage/suppression output of both the .30 cal and the HMG42, as they both just rape stuff at medium/short to the point of irrelevancy of which is which.

Base acc :
.30 cal - 0.2
MG42 - 0.125

Equal incremental acc at 1.12
7 damage/bullet for both, though HMG42 suffers from an inherent 0.75dmg vs infantry armour that the .30 cal doesn't.

Both fire 32-40 bullets in a burst.
The HMG42 does it over a time period of 2-2.5 seconds
The .30 cal does it over a time period of 4-5 seconds.

Cooldown :
1.5-2.5s for .30 cal
1.8-3.0s for HMG42

The .30 cal actually deals more suppression/bullet, weirdly - but it is rather irrelevant as none of the HMGs suffer any DPS reduction vs suppressed units.

Anyway, in the short form I am taking the targets to be a grenadier squad and a rifle squad, to give the best possible (fair) benefit to the HMG42.

The .30 cal will be firing at a total accuracy of 31.47%
The HMG will be firing at a total accuracy of 24.67%

(both decreasing at a rate of 0.89 with each subsequent kill. I will not be taking this into account in this short-form stats crunch).

So, assuming average burst length : both MGs will fire off 36 rounds upon their first burst, with the HMG42 taking 2.25 seconds and the .30 cal taking 4.5 seconds.

The MG42 will hit with approximately 9 of it's bullets, dealing a total of 47.25 damage.
The .30 cal will hit with approximately 11 of it's bullets, dealing a total of 77 damage.

With a 2.25+2.4 = 4.65s total in the fire-cooldown sequence the HMG does better than the .30 cal with it's total of 4.5+2=6.5s, essentially allowing for the HMG42 to fire off 4 bursts for each 3 of the .30 cal(Note, this is a simplification)

So the damage over the same period of time(simplified) where the .30 cal fires 3, and the HMG42 fires 4 bursts is this :

.30 cal : 231
MG42 : 189

To put this back to more realistic terms, the .30 cal would finish this fire sequence in a time of :
17.5 seconds (4.5+2+4.5+2+4.5)
Whereas the HMG42 would take
16.2 seconds (2.25+2.4+2.25+2.4+2.25+2.4+2.25)

Though the HMG42 wouldn't really manage to cooldown before it's next burst.

So all in all - the HMG42 only really has any advantage in the initial stage where it's low relative fire-burst time ensures it being able to dish out 1.5 bursts before the .30 cal gets to cooldown to fire it's second burst, which mildly offsets the massive advantage the .30 cal enjoys in both damage and accuracy.
However, at this point the diminishing returns of the HMG42 killing the low-health allied soldiers faster (and thus losing accuracy faster) will set in and the .30 cal will begin feeling it's extended DPS edge.
Furthermore, the HMG42 would PIN the enemy faster due to the significantly larger ammount of bullets expelled in their direction - and this WOULD absolutely devastate the MG42s DPS capabilities (they would diminish to being 1/16th of their usual effectiveness at 0.25 acc 0.25 dmg)

So yes - even though in the short run (first 6.5 seconds) the HMG42 and the .30 cal are more or less so equal in damage output (77 for .30 cal 70.875 for HMG42) - in the long run the .30 cal is the clear winner for all your damage-dealing needs.

[Tymathee]

but the question is. 30 cal and mg42 on ground, which do you pick up?

[Mysthalin]

You are asking me a normative question. As an economist/statitician I can only provide you with the positive information.
If you want to hear which I think is better in utility in my own personal opinion, it will only be exactly that - my own personal opinion.

[Poppi]

as i guy who tried  Lock n Loaded and was hoping those buffs will make my MGs and Mortars bad ass or decent. It didnt. The .30 did a better job with picking people off and dealing damage though.

But back to vanilla .30 HMG.

Ya it doesnt suppress worth poop even against standard inf. I guess it DPS can match or be slightly better than a mg42 but im not using mgs for killing power. Especially since the guys im shooting at with a HMG can still walk up to me and either throw grenades of just shoot me with rifles and still win. Or in the dumb ass sci fi approach cloak 2 feet infront of me. While a mg42 will almost always suppress standard inf within like 4 shots at max range.

Ive heard "oh its only 20mu". I will gladly pay ALOT more for an MG that does its job. That 20mu doesnt do much for you if it can perform its role.

[Demon767]

GroundFires Locked and loaded company

/thread

[AmPM]

as i guy who tried  Lock n Loaded and was hoping those buffs will make my MGs and Mortars bad ass or decent. It didnt. The .30 did a better job with picking people off and dealing damage though.

But back to vanilla .30 HMG.

Ya it doesnt suppress worth poop even against standard inf. I guess it DPS can match or be slightly better than a mg42 but im not using mgs for killing power. Especially since the guys im shooting at with a HMG can still walk up to me and either throw grenades of just shoot me with rifles and still win. Or in the dumb ass sci fi approach cloak 2 feet infront of me. While a mg42 will almost always suppress standard inf within like 4 shots at max range.

Ive heard "oh its only 20mu". I will gladly pay ALOT more for an MG that does its job. That 20mu doesnt do much for you if it can perform its role.

.30 suppresses at the same rate as the MG42, it just fires a shorter burst. It will suppress at the beginning of the second burst vs vanilla infantry. The MG42 suppresses towards the end of the first burst as long as you are not on a road.

They are pretty much equivalent.

Also, you are looking past the best suppression tool in the game, the BAR. Use that to suppress flankers or blobs, use the HMG to maintain suppression and damage. Victory.

[lionel23]

I still would rather have an HMG that actually does what every other HMG does in that I rather it be less accurate but suppress better.

[Mysthalin]

Nobody is allowed to post in this thread till they read, and in full understand, my stats-crunch.

The .30 cal and the HMG42 fire an identical amount of bullets per burst. Except the rate of fire for the .30 cal is lower (though damage and accuracy are both higher).

The suppression on the .30cal on a per-bullet basis is actually GREATER than the HMG42. The reason why it seems like the .30 cal suppresses slower is because it fires the bullets slower.

In all actuality, though - the .30cal is more likely to suppress an enemy squad than an HMG42 is in a singular burst.