Sherman Jumbo

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[BigDick]

Jumbo only kills infantry and light vehicles, sure, you can get a few shots on a P4 and you can go up against an unskirted P4, but i wouldn't suggest fighting against a skirted P4

if you think that a jumbo has any problems to beat the shit out of a p4 then i can just say rofl

a normal sherman (without upgun) against a P4 is almost an even fight (p4 wins more than it loses but it depends on range and who did first shot)

now imagine a jumbo that got more health and bounce p4 shots almost twice as often....

do your math

i don't say that you should get jumbos to counter P4 (to counter tanks that should be either a tank destroyer or an AT gun...oh wait paks don't work reliable) but its even more than cost effective if considered that the jumbo will left the fight with around half health and no additional muni costs attached (95 for skirts and mgof p4 that gets jumbo for free) if you consider that its only 130 more fuel

And make sure you attack from the SIDES. That's the biggest mistake I see people making, is attacking from the front.

if it would have some noticeable slower turning rate than other medium tanks have than that might be possible....(something like marder with 24 turning rate)

but not in its current version

no, its dual purpose. jumbo has one purpose, anti infantry, so it gets the tools it needs for that. that's the way i see it. i guess it's harder to judge since it's such a unique unit.

lol no..... jumbo can easy fight medium tanks too

but yeah some kind of change could be to lower the penetration of jumbo gun to the one P4 IST gets against armored stuff

[Vermillion_Hawk]

BigDick, keep in mind that to acquire any sort of anti-tank capability on a Jumbo, mediocre as it may be, you need the Tank Reapers T4 Doctrinal Buff. Other than that, the Jumbo can only kill light vehicles and infantry. In addition, one Pak may not be sufficient to kill it, but two Paks will usually force the user to retreat their Jumbo, since they can do a lot of damage.

Keep in mind that the Jumbo is also plagued by slow speed (a Panther can outrun it) and extremely slow turret rotation time. You could probably circle-strafe it if you really wanted to. Stop overreacting, and find out what YOU are doing wrong instead of what the developers may have (in your opinion) done wrong.

[BigDick]

are we playing the same game? it has a sherman gun with tankreapers it just has a better sherman gun

without its a sherman gun on something that can take double the beating when fighting medium armor

how can that not fight tanks?

rofl

[lionel23]

Jumbo is mostly fine, maybe a change an a heavy American armor type instead of panther armor might be warranted.

On it's gun, the T4 for TR sucks for the Jumbo, it's only 25% better... while a 76mm upgun is 300% better, so you're getting like 1/12th penetration bonus compared to a normal Sherman... and with the Stug changes, a Stug should easily floor the thing or at least chase it away.

It's not meant to fight tanks, and is very poor or at best mediocre in keeping it at bay and buying you time to move your support forces away.

[8thRifleRegiment]

CURRENTLY the jumbo is allright, becuase the meta game has adjusted

[lionel23]

Hmmm that's true, I only played one game yesterday, I haven't had a chance to roll out my Axis yet... I do like the overall bonuses to the shrek (and slight nerfs against the poor M3, heh).

[TheVolskinator]

Jumbo is fine, Im assuming it has teh sherman 75mm gun (I use standard sherms to decent effect vs axis armor so i dunno what ppl whine @ it about). Panther armor might be a bit much but I've never had mine lolwtfpwn anything. Ended up swapping that T3 out cuz regular shermans just work better--faster, same weapon, and can inf crush reliably. Plus the 76mm :3

[Vermillion_Hawk]

BigDick makes it out like this thing can teleport and has armor-piercing nuclear ammunition. It's seriously just a very specialized tank that straddles the borderline between medium and heavy. It's also really bad at fighting tanks.

[Mysthalin]

I was never particularly a fan of giving jumbos panther_skirts armour.

It literally means that the best way to counter the damn thing(aside from doctrinal units) is by stealing an enemy 57mm.. Which is simply a ridiculous concept on it's own accord.

Reminds me of the days when i would just ignore the enemy stealing my 6 pdrs on my churchil croc coy. Lulz 33% penetration rate against rear armour.


So I do to an extent see where BD's coming from - the Jumbo does, by all means, floor P4s fairly easily, unless the Jumbo user is doing something silly. You may say "oh, but you can circle it" - but sorry, that argument just doesn't hold up : the Jumbo is more than just capable of turning and has quite decent turret rotation. Even pumas have a hard time attempting circle-strafe(assuming decent micro from the jumbo user - which should always be assumed in balance discussion).

Merely changing the armour type to churchil with an inherent 0.75 rec_pen should be perfectly fine in both retaining the unit's heavy status and actually making it something that the axis can reliably counter without stealing 57mms or bringing on a panther/jag/pak40.

[Tymathee]

the only issue with the jumbo really is the bounced shots, other wise the gun is just a sherman gun and it has 100 more health. I love 'em in my infantry coy but they're not a beat all.

[TheVolskinator]

IMO church armor sucks ass, but maybe thats just me. Im not sure what you'd want to do but I agree that skirted_panther armor is way over the top for this unit.

[Mister Schmidt]

Says the guy who made the retarded Rhino

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Says the guy who made the retarded Rhino

Creating new units is much harder than modifying existing ones, Schmidt.

[Mister Schmidt]

No it's not.

Besides I was trolling

[8thRifleRegiment]

JUST AS A GENERAL NOTE

In all areas where Allied units have been given axis armor values,

and axis units allied values.

The results have always been disputeable becuase all units have funky damage tables vs units of thier own faction.

[Mister Schmidt]

Finally someone says something intelligent.

This is totally true.

I remember when something had Stug armour, fausts use to oneshot it, because damage tables are not designed to be reversed.

[8thRifleRegiment]

When the jumbo had pershing armor it was better.

[TheVolskinator]

Says the guy who made the retarded Rhino

At least I (?we) am/are working to balance it.

OT, Give it church armor as a trial, then swap to Persh armor if that doesnt work. Problem solved.

[Mister Schmidt]

It WAS Pershing armour. I don't know why it was changed.

[DarkSoldierX]

I thought most of the penetration issues with axis wep vs. panther were fixed.

And as far as the "forced to bring out heavier AT like pak40/panther" comment, well thats exactly what allies have to do, bring out that 17p, firefly, AP rounds 57(which frankly cost more than a pak40), and quite a few M10's.

Now as far as the free skirts goes, I do believe it should have to pay for skirts, not get them free.

As far as the free MG goes, KT gets free MG too so I have no comment.