ATG micro

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[RikiRude]

Can any of you pros make a video showing ATG micro at it's best? I know sometimes I go against players that can somehow turn their ATGs in such a way that they are incredibly difficult to circle. I imagine these are the same players that are capable of moving their KTs/Tigers in such a way that you can barely circle them with out taking a hit or two.

I feel like I'm at the point where I can hopefully micro this well, but just plain don't know how to do the tactic, which direction you want to back up in and which way you want to turn the gun, ect.

[Heartmann]

Tbh, its like chess just think 3-4 steps ahead, for instance as soon as my atg is discovered, i start to try thinking what the enemy can do first option is arty so moving is good idea, can i cover it while moving!? How many LV's am i facing, what inf and do on^^

[TheIcelandicManiac]

I micro my ATGs like i micro my tanks, cant seem to find the video smokaz made ATM so let me find it.

[Scotzmen]

I micro my ATGs like i micro my tanks, cant seem to find the video smokaz made ATM so let me find it.

Started to sound like a funny joke, but you disappointed me

[DarkSoldierX]

Started to sound like a funny joke, but you disappointed me

+1

[RoyalHants]

Started to sound like a funny joke, but you disappointed me

+2

[Hicks58]

Started to sound like a funny joke, but you disappointed me

+C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

[Tymathee]

atg micro is more anticipation than skill. make a static company that uses a lot of support weapons, it'll get you used to anticipation cuz you have to

[8thRifleRegiment]

Exactly anticipation is the most important, most players when they reach an atgs with a ghound thier first instint is to just run around it in circles, you can face the atg where the ghoound is going to be rather than where it is.

[spinn72]

IN THE WORDS OF LURR, DO NOT AIM WHERE I AM, AIM WHERE I AM GOING TO BE

[Hicks58]

Best thing for ATG's is simply to not have them be found alone.

Layering ATG's works wonders to counter circle-jerk attempts, but if push comes to shove bare one simple rule in mind: You'll never hit your target by aiming at it. It could be a Churchill and it'll have moved out of the line of fire before you've finished pointing directly where it was at.

The best thing to do is to aim in either direction of where it is currently, and at least a full 90 degree turn's worth. You've got a 50/50 chance of having him run right into your waiting barrel (Unless it's something of ridiculous speed, such as an overdrive AC).

Last note, while it may be instinct to always aim in front of where the target is going, it's not always the best plan - It's awfully simple to reverse the vehicle and have you be pointing in the completely wrong direction.

[Tymathee]

layering really doesn't work unless you have it a significant length away. I've gone against poorly layed atgs and beat them with a single m8.

[Smokaz]

For 57mm the most important part is having full sight when possible and having a blocker/supporting units. The 57mm fires a bit slower and isnt cloaked on its 1 shot so using its range becomes more important.

Rushing paks with your armor isnt the best of ideas when its part of a larger composition. If its the front pak on bocage for instance, its guaranteed to have shreks and other stuff in support. Unlike the 57mm, Pak has no way to increase its penetration pastt the 1st shot so generally will not be used to sit at range and shoot at the allies, it should be pulled back quickly if there is no vehicles/tanks to fire on since allied handheld is better than shreks at hitting paks from long distance. Allies also have more expendable troops so banzai to decrew is popular, meaning a known position is a bad one.

As for microing a *supported* pak, unlike the 57mm it can sometimes be beneficial to open fire at the moment where the allied armor "commits" guaranteeing a lot of Firing Time. Aka, waiting with firing.  Because of the faster firing rate and the lack of penetration at long range, this is a good way to use it.

Another less known thing is that you move faster on roads with paks/57mms, so using those can be helpful sometimes.

As for layering at gun defenses, you want the 2nd atg or pak to have its max range be about "grenade range" from front of the position of the first at gun. This means your back-layered at gun will open fire as the enemy armor starts circling the 1st one. You'll have to decide when layering defenses; if the enemy is artillery heavy using clumped AT isn't a option but if they aren't two 57mms or two paks firing on the same target will cripple anything medium or light immediatly if they penetrate while being also weaker to circling. I've seen some dual pak starts and that usually means they get layered. The way to think about is whether or not you prefer the big alpha damage or the safety of armor not being able to overrun you past the 1st pak.

Finally, most players will have experienced the annoyance of weapon priority tables. A bike or a light vehicle being present as the sherman charges can screw with their turret aiming and frustrate the attacking player to no end.
 
Pak2----------------------------------Max range
                                    Pak1 ---------------------------------Max range
GR                                        -----
B/VD/SAT            aaa
ACP                                                            ooo



GR = Grenade range
B/VD/SAT = Blocker, Vehicle disabler, Supporting AT (tanks, infantry)
ACP = Armor Commitment range

So when ACP "ooo" is breached by one or more tanks, you disable hold fire/activate AP rounds. Blockers move in when circling is imminent on the first pak, which is grenade range. Important to note that they should behind front Pak1 if you have time to arrange this position because you want to encourage the charge up until the commitment point. This system of layering deals with more than 1 tank or light vehicle easily and attempts to ensure destruction of whatever moves by a series of surprises. Obviously Wehrmacht and brits with cloaked at units do this best.

Baiting them into commitment works because of simple player behaviour. They will attempt to finish what they have started. "I've already taken 2 shots from this pak, once I can start circling it I will destroy it." The point is to have a defense which seemingly allows them in, and then closes the trap rendering them optionless.


Use attack ground to check the range, once your attack ground cursor is "outside" range it will change to the "not possible" icon.

Careful players/Experienced players will not be trappable. They will screen with infantry which is why any layered defense uses MGs as well. They'll also have artillery ready to remove the first pak/mg, or use a recon or scouts to advice themselves on the best course of action.  Any normal composition will not have the amount of support weapons to make a multi-directional layered defense; those are not normal in EIRR and the amount of management it takes closely follows its effiency. 88s are popular in a layered defense for related reasons; its a heavy AT asset centerpiece with awesome range that turns by itself and targets the "right units".

[Tymathee]

-_- zzzz

[Heartmann]

For 57mm the most important part is having full sight when possible and having a blocker/supporting units. The 57mm fires a bit slower and isnt cloaked on its 1 shot so using its range becomes more important.

Rushing paks with your armor isnt the best of ideas when its part of a larger composition. If its the front pak on bocage for instance, its guaranteed to have shreks and other stuff in support. Unlike the 57mm, Pak has no way to increase its penetration pastt the 1st shot so generally will not be used to sit at range and shoot at the allies, it should be pulled back quickly if there is no vehicles/tanks to fire on since allied handheld is better than shreks at hitting paks from long distance. Allies also have more expendable troops so banzai to decrew is popular, meaning a known position is a bad one.

As for microing a *supported* pak, unlike the 57mm it can sometimes be beneficial to open fire at the moment where the allied armor "commits" guaranteeing a lot of Firing Time. Aka, waiting with firing.  Because of the faster firing rate and the lack of penetration at long range, this is a good way to use it.

Another less known thing is that you move faster on roads with paks/57mms, so using those can be helpful sometimes.

As for layering at gun defenses, you want the 2nd atg or pak to have its max range be about "grenade range" from front of the position of the first at gun. This means your back-layered at gun will open fire as the enemy armor starts circling the 1st one. You'll have to decide when layering defenses; if the enemy is artillery heavy using clumped AT isn't a option but if they aren't two 57mms or two paks firing on the same target will cripple anything medium or light immediatly if they penetrate while being also weaker to circling. I've seen some dual pak starts and that usually means they get layered. The way to think about is whether or not you prefer the big alpha damage or the safety of armor not being able to overrun you past the 1st pak.

Finally, most players will have experienced the annoyance of weapon priority tables. A bike or a light vehicle being present as the sherman charges can screw with their turret aiming and frustrate the attacking player to no end.
 
Pak2----------------------------------Max range
                                    Pak1 ---------------------------------Max range
GR                                        -----
B/VD/SAT            aaa
ACP                                                            ooo



GR = Grenade range
B/VD/SAT = Blocker, Vehicle disabler, Supporting AT (tanks, infantry)
ACP = Armor Commitment range

So when ACP "ooo" is breached by one or more tanks, you disable hold fire/activate AP rounds. Blockers move in when circling is imminent on the first pak, which is grenade range. Important to note that they should behind front Pak1 if you have time to arrange this position because you want to encourage the charge up until the commitment point. This system of layering deals with more than 1 tank or light vehicle easily and attempts to ensure destruction of whatever moves by a series of surprises. Obviously Wehrmacht and brits with cloaked at units do this best.

Baiting them into commitment works because of simple player behaviour. They will attempt to finish what they have started. "I've already taken 2 shots from this pak, once I can start circling it I will destroy it." The point is to have a defense which seemingly allows them in, and then closes the trap rendering them optionless.


Use attack ground to check the range, once your attack ground cursor is "outside" range it will change to the "not possible" icon.

Careful players/Experienced players will not be trappable. They will screen with infantry which is why any layered defense uses MGs as well. They'll also have artillery ready to remove the first pak/mg, or use a recon or scouts to advice themselves on the best course of action.  Any normal composition will not have the amount of support weapons to make a multi-directional layered defense; those are not normal in EIRR and the amount of management it takes closely follows its effiency. 88s are popular in a layered defense for related reasons; its a heavy AT asset centerpiece with awesome range that turns by itself and targets the "right units".

Wow Guy, thanks for the effort real cool ^^

[PonySlaystation]

Pak2----------------------------------Max range
                                             Pak1 ---------------------------------Max range

This is the most important part. If you or your teammates have more than one ATG at the field always use them to cover each other. That way when Pak1 gets flanked it will survive because it was covered. A less likely scenario is that Pak2 gets flanked  but if that happens just turn Pak1 around.

If there is no second ATG around, keep your ATG behind your other units to cover them instead. ATGs are not front line units.

[Heartmann]

unless you are going to use them as a ATG wall, rolling upp the line, spec when you ahve tigers, supporting the ATG

[PonySlaystation]

unless you are going to use them as a ATG wall, rolling upp the line, spec when you ahve tigers, supporting the ATG

That's terrible advise. If you have a Tiger you should use the ATGs to cover the Tiger, not stand next to it. If you have more than one ATG then you should not have them next to each other like a "wall". That will only make sure that they get flanked and die. Because when you have ATGs you don't need more damage, you need to keep on target as long as possible.

[RikiRude]

nice 80gunz post smokaz. i usually go for the alpha strike simply because if one gun gets overwhelmed i just turn the other one, but if using a lot of support weapons this sound like a great set up, especially to cover snipers.

[Smokaz]

This is the most important part. If you or your teammates have more than one ATG at the field always use them to cover each other. That way when Pak1 gets flanked it will survive because it was covered. A less likely scenario is that Pak2 gets flanked  but if that happens just turn Pak1 around.

If there is no second ATG around, keep your ATG behind your other units to cover them instead. ATGs are not front line units.

I agree 100% these days, because atgs are actually reasonably priced units. Before recent changes every allied orifice had a 57mm barrel pointing out of it so it was popular to just have so many of them supported or not that any mistake allowed the infantry blob to overwhelm a tank-depending player

It also makes sense a lot of times to not try to invent your own "good position" and just re-layer your teammates defense

However people will not appreciate this overly much if your team is low on mapcontrol, sitting half way to spawn behind other people isn't a winning strategy

Any layered defense strategy has holding 50% or more map as a prequerisite, theres no such a thing as a layered offense. Offense is about overpowering or outmaneuvering, defense is about attritioning and delaying.

Attacking layered defenses is frustrating too. You expend resources decrewing stuff, and then you hit another wall which you didnt know about. A team of layered defense should respond to mortar smoke by "passing the baton" back while waiting for the enemy to exhaust their special pushing abilities