New Doctrinal System

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[SaintPauli]

Grind = part of fun lol

Grindless system in 800 = Very low grind

lol
 

You can still do a system where you need to grind to unlock new units and abilities. We are just advocating a system where the power gain from leveling is lowered (you still gain flexibility and the option of using stronger units). Why would you want a system where a level 5 company cannot compete against a level 9 company? 

 

[AmPM]

Because a level 5 company CAN compete vs a level 9 company already.

It does happens constantly in EIRR as is.

You are better off lowering the total increases from free buffs and balancing that way than tossing in something to make them weaker by adding cost to them.

Smokaz, it's not an idea that works in any real sense of the word. To do so you would need PERFECT balance in gained effectiveness vs cost or it's meaningless.

If the cost for a STuG to get say +25% pen is higher than a Tiger paying the same because it actually benefits the STuG you will never have a Tiger with it, and on top of that you will have a much more cost efficient vehicle in something that requires the MINIMAL amount of doctrine abilities to be effective.

On the subject of "Dude, that’s like saying that elite infantry isn’t worth buying when you can get standard infantry. Is Stormtroopers worth it when you can get Volks? It’s just different ways of spending you resources…"; in most cases, Elite infantry are a waste of fucking resources. I run Stormies only because they are hardly more expensive than Grens and I want something different. They are not cost efficient. In my Infantry Company I would never use Rangers for a competitive build. Same goes with Commandos or KCH. Not worth taking over basic infantry. Too much stuff instantly negates an infantry squad of any kind for me to want to spend the extra resources on something that is anywhere from 50% to 0% more effective.

[DarkSoldierX]

You can still do a system where you need to grind to unlock new units and abilities. We are just advocating a system where the power gain from leveling is lowered (you still gain flexibility and the option of using stronger units). Why would you want a system where a level 5 company cannot compete against a level 9 company? 

With the grindless system the level 5 will get to level 9 in roughly 5 games lol.

And that is less likely considering his faction had to get to level 9 first, which would take alot more time, so the level 5 should have the time to catch up to him anyway.

And its not like they can't compete. The difference isn't that huge. And if the level 5 has a bit more skill he can still win it regardless.

[SaintPauli]

Because a level 5 company CAN compete vs a level 9 company already.
 

And its not like they can't compete. The difference isn't that huge. And if the level 5 has a bit more skill he can still win it regardless.

You guys should stop stacking and stomping noobs. The difference between a level 5 and 9 company is huge if you are playing vs. equally skilled opponents. There shouldn’t be the need the have 10-20 easy game before you can compete on fairly equal terms…

If the cost for a STuG to get say +25% pen is higher than a Tiger paying the same because it actually benefits the STuG you will never have a Tiger with it, and on top of that you will have a much more cost efficient

The proposed system is not any different than the variation in the pricing of Side Skirts. EVERYTHING will be an upgrade.

Also please don’t forget that all doctrinal buffs in Vanilla CoH have a resource cost (except for zeal and stuff like building sandbags and lower call in times). Relic knew what they were doing!

They are not cost efficient. In my Infantry Company I would never use Rangers for a competitive build.

And there you have another problem with the current build. The buffs from the doctrine makes it much more viable to spend you resources on BARs. Congratulation you infantry company  is just like mine…

[hans]

You guys should stop stacking and stomping noobs. The difference between a level 5 and 9 company is huge if you are playing vs. equally skilled opponents. There shouldn’t be the need the have 10-20 easy game before you can compete on fairly equal terms…
The proposed system is not any different than the variation in the pricing of Side Skirts. EVERYTHING will be an upgrade.

thats soooo true

+1

[SaintPauli]

With the grindless system the level 5 will get to level 9 in roughly 5 games lol.
 

Stop saying retarded stuff. This system does not in any way affect the amount of time it takes to go from level 5 to 9.

The current system on the other hand is so unbalanced in terms of new vs. old companies that we have to start players out at level  5 so it isn’t a complete stomp. If the powergain from leveling was less you could actually have players start out at level 1…

[AmPM]

Pauli, that has nothing to do with doctrine buffs, and everything to do with overpriced units and upgrades. Even without Doctrine buffs BAR Rifles are the best AI infantry in the game.

At what point do you stop charging for upgrades? +25% pen on a STuG could be fairly expensive and would have to be balanced vs the likelyhood of it facing targets where it gains a benefit (pretty much only Shermans) vs it being a near useless upgrade for Panthers or Tigers.

Again, let us examine the STuG, with your pricing, if you want to actually use your doctrine you are looking at +25fu, +45mu; on top of that you add repair/s and MG. You now have your super expensive STuG that still dies in seconds. GG.

Most doctrine buffs are only worth using BECAUSE they are free, they allow you to win a resource battle (which is all EIRR is) by focusing on what benefits the most (Spam). This concept would not reduce spam (Some things will naturally be a better deal, and hence used over the rest) nor will it make companies unique in flavor.

Proper balancing of Doctrines with customized buffs for each unit is the best and easiest way to do it.

Tier difference is minimal really, and will be basically non existent in the 8.0 series of EIRR. The way it works is you get significantly more XP/PP than normal if you are below the current level cap. So say your faction is level 9, you will take, and this is straight from EIRRMod, about 10 games to catch up.

[Smokaz]

"Level 5 companies can compete with level 9 companies"

Yeah I'm SURE that for instance a level 5 infantry company will do AWESOME vs a bunch of vetted, elite armor grens or a dual t3 defensive officer company. Supah even games, should be in the next shoutcast.

The only practical and beliable way to do it is using a buttload of snipers and outplaying your opponent with a risky strategy using expensive troops. Sounds like a winning bet, yeah?

[AmPM]

"Level 5 companies can compete with level 9 companies"

Yeah I'm SURE that for instance a level 5 infantry company will do AWESOME vs a bunch of vetted, elite armor grens or a dual t3 defensive officer company. Supah even games, should be in the next shoutcast.

The only practical and beliable way to do it is using a buttload of snipers and outplaying your opponent with a risky strategy using expensive troops. Sounds like a winning bet, yeah?

BAR Rifle is not impressed by your infantry or officers tbh.

[Smokaz]

I beg you to play to a arranged game with your leve 5 bars vs my defensive!

[BigDick]

You guys should stop stacking and stomping noobs. The difference between a level 5 and 9 company is huge if you are playing vs. equally skilled opponents. There shouldn’t be the need the have 10-20 easy game before you can compete on fairly equal terms…
The proposed system is not any different than the variation in the pricing of Side Skirts. EVERYTHING will be an upgrade.

all that talk about lvl5 vs lvl9 is complete "kappes" because when the warmap is in there will be no lvl5 vs lvl9 and each participants of a "side" progressing in company doctrine unlocks similar

the lvl differences will be between the sides (a bit tuned down as far as i understood it) while the side making warmap progress is leveling a bit slower (i hope you will complain then too that we have maybe rank 9 vs rank 8 because one side is loosing the "war")

so if that "super" new doctrinal system should be introduced to balance a rank9 vs new rank 1 companies then its even more idiotic because there will be no such battles on warmap

[Smokaz]

I can see how you are worried :p

No level disparity, smurfing removed?

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

Here's your button

[BigDick]

how could i be worried about lvl disparity u fucking mong when there will be none and i actually played at least 95% of my games on the lower end of lvl disparity

start using ur brain dude tard and you may see that smurfing and profit of lvl disparity is a contradiction and now gtfo into ur troll cave

[SaintPauli]

I beg you to play to a arranged game with your leve 5 bars vs my defensive!

AMPM, why don’t you find a partner and the two of you use level 5 accounts vs. Smokaz and Me on level 9 accounts…
 
Then we will have to accept one of the following:

1: Level 9 companies are so much better than level 5 companies that this isn’t a fair mach…

2: Smokaz and I are the best players in this mod and no one can possibly beat us…

3: Smokaz and I are not the best players but your skill level i so much below us that you can win, even with the best player on you team…
  

Then there is the odd chance of you winning if any of us gets disconnected…  

[SaintPauli]

the lvl differences will be between the sides (a bit tuned down as far as i understood it) while the side making warmap progress is leveling a bit slower (i hope you will complain then too that we have maybe rank 9 vs rank 8 because one side is loosing the "war")

Now you are talking about a system without level difference and you guys are complaining about not being rewarded for you grind?

Again I ask: what’s the point of raising the power level? When everyone's super, no one will be…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8I9pYCl9AQ

[MorkaandBorka]

start using ur brain dude tard and you may see that smurfing and profit of lvl disparity is a contradiction and now gtfo into ur troll cave

...wat...

Ya smokaz, get the fuck out into your troll cave, dont ever go back to it....stupid mong

AMPM, why don’t you find a partner and the two of you use level 5 accounts vs. Smokaz and Me on level 9 accounts…
 
Then we will have to accept one of the following:

1: Level 9 companies are so much better than level 5 companies that this isn’t a fair mach…

2: Smokaz and I are the best players in this mod and no one can possibly beat us…

3: Smokaz and I are not the best players but your skill level i so much below us that you can win, even with the best player on you team…
  

Then there is the odd chance of you winning if any of us gets disconnected…  

Ill take that challenge tbh.  Lets do it.

[SaintPauli]

Ill take that challenge tbh.  Lets do it.

Dude, your level 9 cant beat Volksky and Rocksitter...  

[DarkSoldierX]

Stop saying retarded stuff. This system does not in any way affect the amount of time it takes to go from level 5 to 9.

The current system on the other hand is so unbalanced in terms of new vs. old companies that we have to start players out at level  5 so it isn’t a complete stomp. If the powergain from leveling was less you could actually have players start out at level 1…

Basically, this is what it comes down to.

Instead of an individual grind, you get a faction wide grind. (seperate for US/Brits/Wehr/PE)
Every game you play adds to the total level (xp/pp) of your faction, more so when you win. All players are at their faction's level.

* The 10% rule. New profiles being created will not be set at the faction's level immediately. They will gain 10% of the faction's level each game played. This means that it will take them 10 games to be at the faction level. (We can probably work in some way to check accounts, allowing new launcher accounts to be at the faction level right away)

Lol, same amount of time you say? Faction is level 9 already, the end of the war approaching already, but for some reason im a noob so I made my account halfway into the war, putting me at level 1.

Instead of playing roughly 24 games, now I play 9.

And you say thats the same amount of games? Lol.

How about you stop talking retarded shit if you don't know about it.

Edit: So basicly, the difference between level 1 vs level 9 is closed very very quickly, making it more fair

[AmPM]

Lol, same amount of time you say? Faction is level 9 already, the end of the war approaching already, but for some reason im a noob so I made my account halfway into the war, putting me at level 1.

Instead of playing roughly 24 games, now I play 9.

And you say thats the same amount of games? Lol.

How about you stop talking retarded shit if you don't know about it.

Edit: So basicly, the difference between level 1 vs level 9 is closed very very quickly, making it more fair

See, this is why people need to read. Pauli would already know his idea is useless.

[SaintPauli]

Lol, same amount of time you say? Faction is level 9 already, the end of the war approaching already, but for some reason im a noob so I made my account halfway into the war, putting me at level 1.

Instead of playing roughly 24 games, now I play 9.

And you say thats the same amount of games? Lol.

And how fun is that if you like the leveling part???

With the proposed system you can make I so it takes 50 games to unlock everything, and still have it balanced enough for new LEVEL 1 companies to compete. There would be no need to have people start at higher levels “later in the war”.