New Unit Ideas

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[Vermillion_Hawk]

I recently had some ideas for new units that I thought could be interesting to use in this mod:

Sharpshooter Squad

This 2- or maybe 3-man squad is a fragile long-range regular infantry squadron. These guys would be only slightly more endurant than a sniper, and they would have poor accuracy at medium range, and very poor accuracy at close range, but in exchange they would be able to harass enemy units from afar with excellent accuracy. They would be equipped with nothing but a mainline rifle (Garand, Karabiner) with modified accuracy values and maybe slightly increased damage. They would be fairly expensive and take up a fair amount of infantry pool points. They would be used as support for your regular infantry, being kept behind your lines and out of harm's way for the most part. In turn, they would be vulnerable to flanking and stealthy maneuvers.

Skirmishers

I was thinking this sort of unit might be useful for the Allies, particularily the Americans. This would be a lightly-equipped 4- or 3-man stealth squad. Armor-wise, they would be the equivalent of American riflemen, possibly with slightly reduced health. They would be equipped with mainline infantry rifles (Garands, Karabiners) to start with, but they could be upgraded so that one or two squad members get SMGs (Thompson/Grease Gun, MP40). They would have a cloak ability like Snipers and Stormtroopers. They would be very useful for infiltrating a locked-down enemy position, and could surprise enemy forces where they are least expected. In turn, however, they would be easily killed in a fight protracted past the first few seconds of engagement, or a long-range battle.

Well, those are my ideas. Leave feedback and criticism please.

[TheVolskinator]

Already in my PDF, see "Falshirmjaeger Scharfeschutze". Poeple need to fking check out my PDF when I say new units. Generally, that means new units...

Theyre damn tough with 90hp per man, but are generally marksman units. Any sort of infiltration unit shouldnt be any lower then a rifleman on HP, otherwise its pointless to use them. Theres a reason storms and mandos are reasonably tough...

Good ideas nonetheless!

PM me if you really feel on this and want me to make a full-stat list for at least the Skirmisher squad (needs a rename. Skirmisher is icky, like "Compstomp Squad" )

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Well I called them Skirmishers because they're not supposed to partake in any lengthened engagements. The name is always subject to change of course, I never really intended them to be finalized names. Also, I wanted the Skirmishers to be weak, because unlike Commandos or Stromtroopers, they are not supposed to be able to hold their own in full-out combat. They're a hit-and-run unit through and through. Also, I may just take you up on the offer to flesh out the Skirmisher squad more at a later time.

[TheVolskinator]

The problem with your Skirmisher concept is that, in the EiR environment, stormtroopers and mandos are already easy to dispatch when revealed--only gimmicks like KIM or mando smoke spam are keeping them alive long enough to escape, otherwise there WILL be a teammate's unit or mine, or SOMETHING to stop or kill that squad. If you make a weak infiltration unit, as soon as it attacks something its going to get assfucked with no lube by the nearest pioneer squad--now, as much as i love to see cute pioneers actually kill something with their popgun mp40s once in a blue moon, something as (proposed as) expensive as Skirmishers would be a bad investment. I would personally stick with my bar squads and initiate a classic U.S. flank, or micro a sniper around. Just my 2 cents, maybe im wrong. Not trying to be mean about what I said at all, please dont take it as such.

Take, for example (hint hint, just check out my PDF and find these guys at the bottom of it, last unit under Wehrmacht (blue unit title), my Volkssturm idea was a cross between infiltration unit and mainline throwaway infantry--theyre 200 MP, 60 MU, can pop out of the selected building or trundle in from offmap with 2 movespeed (3 is regular for infantry). They have an arbitrary demo, and EIGHT guys. EIGHT. They camo in cover or anywhere if they sit still for 20 seconds, with no bonuses. But, they have 40 HP per guy, so charging a riflesquad is going to result in a dead squad. If they were 3-4 guys, theyd get roflstomped too easily. Its a mix, you either have low man count, high HP squads, or high man count, low HP squads. The only exception is engineers, which by game layout are supposed to be weak cannon fodder fit only for building shite.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

The thing that would make Skirmishers viable would be to make them fairly inexpensive, as I failed to mention in my original post. I was also thinking that maybe they would get the ability to walk at normal speed while cloaked. My intention with the unit was for a relatively inexpensive unit that could pull off a sneaky, one second rear assault to distract the enemy or cripple support weapons, but could not survive up against regular infantry head-to-head. They aren't supposed to be able to hold the line like Commandos and Stromtroopers are somewhat capable of.

It's just a rough draft of the potential unit anyways, hopefully it can be refined.

[TheVolskinator]

You had me at "fairly inexpensive".

PM me, i want to try and hammer out a rough draft tonight xD.

[WildZontar]

It's bad enough we haven't balanced the reward units yet, I would hold on those ideas for later.

[MonthlyMayhem]

More silly cloaking units!?

[AmPM]

I think the last thing the game needs is new units. What it needs is a reason to use the units it already has, proper balance of doctrines and units.

If you really think we need new units. I would suggest something that adds a unique flavor to a faction/doctrine.

Also, for reward units.

Has anyone thought that instead of using things like US Marines we should just add Free French Legionnaires, Polish Paratroopers, etc?

Then give the Axis squads like 5. SS Wiking units and foreign troops? Maybe an Italian squad that is like 10 Volks with Lee Enfields. That kind of thing.

They could have different weapons loadouts, and some special abilities. Polish Para's could regen in cover, French could have a 1 time retreat to spawn ability. I would love to see unique troops that don't provide some sort of crazy overpowered crap.

[MonthlyMayhem]

I think the last thing the game needs is new units. What it needs is a reason to use the units it already has, proper balance of doctrines and units.

If you really think we need new units. I would suggest something that adds a unique flavor to a faction/doctrine.

Also, for reward units.

Has anyone thought that instead of using things like US Marines we should just add Free French Legionnaires, Polish Paratroopers, etc?

Then give the Axis squads like 5. SS Wiking units and foreign troops? Maybe an Italian squad that is like 10 Volks with Lee Enfields. That kind of thing.

They could have different weapons loadouts, and some special abilities. Polish Para's could regen in cover, French could have a 1 time retreat to spawn ability. I would love to see unique troops that don't provide some sort of crazy overpowered crap.

+ 1 nothing like adding in a little flare of variety and not make them roflstomp everything in sight.

[EIRRMod]

I think the last thing the game needs is new units. What it needs is a reason to use the units it already has, proper balance of doctrines and units.

If you really think we need new units. I would suggest something that adds a unique flavor to a faction/doctrine.

Also, for reward units.

Has anyone thought that instead of using things like US Marines we should just add Free French Legionnaires, Polish Paratroopers, etc?

Then give the Axis squads like 5. SS Wiking units and foreign troops? Maybe an Italian squad that is like 10 Volks with Lee Enfields. That kind of thing.

They could have different weapons loadouts, and some special abilities. Polish Para's could regen in cover, French could have a 1 time retreat to spawn ability. I would love to see unique troops that don't provide some sort of crazy overpowered crap.

Send me a PM regarding relatively simple unit ideas you have for reward units.

I'll use them for the first load of warmap cards.

[TheVolskinator]

PM me guys, i have the time and knowhow to make these units.

[TheVolskinator]

Send me a PM regarding relatively simple unit ideas you have for reward units.

I'll use them for the first load of warmap cards.

NU, MY UNITS D:

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I think the last thing the game needs is new units. What it needs is a reason to use the units it already has, proper balance of doctrines and units.

Yes, AmPM, because me just talking about possibly implementing a finalized, balanced version of this rough unit will completely break and destroy this mod's semblance of balance utterly, amirite? The hilarity of the situation is, I was considering adding a tagline to the bottom telling AmPM to refrain from bitching.

[TheVolskinator]

Yes, AmPM, because me just talking about possibly implementing a finalized, balanced version of this rough unit will completely break and destroy this mod's semblance of balance utterly, amirite? The hilarity of the situation is, I was considering adding a tagline to the bottom telling AmPM to refrain from bitching.

Trolled by VH. Ouchie.

[AmPM]

Yes, AmPM, because me just talking about possibly implementing a finalized, balanced version of this rough unit will completely break and destroy this mod's semblance of balance utterly, amirite? The hilarity of the situation is, I was considering adding a tagline to the bottom telling AmPM to refrain from bitching.

More units cause more balance issues, possibly ones you have not foreseen.

Cloaking allied units that are super cheap + howi/offmaps etc in one doc. Or using them as cheap Stormie defensive lines.

Maybe you should learn to use the units in the game instead of trying to get units to cover your own gameplay and company building issues?

[TheVolskinator]

Nobody complained or mentioned playstyle issues Am, that was over the line there.

American factions has ONE mainline infantry unit, and ONE doctrinal infantry unit (rangers) with decent AI. Rangers' high pool cost limits their deployment, are you saying that some variety in units is a bad thing?

Look at Blitzkrieg mod and its bajillion and and a half units. Its pretty damn balanced atm...

[nikomas]

Blitzmod... having spent almost the entire day playing that I can say that it seems balanced solely on the fact that everything is realistically lethal...
Simply put, blitzmods way balance can in no way apply to EIR or Vcoh balance for that matter, it's feels rather fundamentally different.

That said, I'm all for new units given they fill an unique role and is not just another variation on something that already exists.

[AmPM]

Nobody complained or mentioned playstyle issues Am, that was over the line there.

American factions has ONE mainline infantry unit, and ONE doctrinal infantry unit (rangers) with decent AI. Rangers' high pool cost limits their deployment, are you saying that some variety in units is a bad thing?

Look at Blitzkrieg mod and its bajillion and and a half units. Its pretty damn balanced atm...

It has 1 Mainline infantry unit, and 3 Doctrinal units (Rangers, AB, Assault Engies); PE has 1 mainline unit and 2 factional units (FJ, Luft), Wehr has 2 mainline units, 1 doctrinal unit, and KCH. Seems pretty even to me.

If you want, we can give you the perception of variety and change Riflemen into BAR Rifles, Zook Rifles, etc. Make each unit separate.

Allies don't need any more infantry, Riflemen are the best all around troops in the game with a wide variety of lethal tools available.

[Tymathee]

PE has one mainline? what about assault engineers and tank busters. You also forget panzer pios as a factional unit.

Here' a true run down of the infantry

US - Engineers, Rifles; Doctrinal - AB, Rangers, AE's,
CW - Sappers, Tommy's, Recons; Doctrinal - Commando's
WM - Pios, Volks, Grens, KCH; Doctrinal - Storm Troopers, Oak Leafs,
PE - Pz Grens, Assault Grens, Tank Busters; Doctrinal - Panzer Pio's, Luft, FJ's, Flammen's

dont know what this thread's about but i like to prove that ampm is axis bias