Weapons Cache Rework Proposal #2

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[Unkn0wn]

Because there is no point in getting unupgraded units. It's like running an army of minesweeper engineers, it's not exactly fun. Talk about gimmick.

Um, really? So there's no point in getting unupgraded riflemen, or unupgraded rangers? Are you mad? Wow, you must've really hated this game back when unupgraded infantry was a lot more common (with 10000 MP and 1800 mun)

Also, the reason why I am making these proposals is because I want community input. I know some fundamentally oppose the need for a system like this, but I'm confident we can find some middle ground and come up with a system, like this, that is much less intrusive and also has some benefits (like increased company variety) I'm confident it's something a majority of players can settle with, and I know for a fact it'll be beneficial in the long run.

[Demon767]

i still have 400mu left over on my luft account. someone fix pls

[PonySlaystation]

Yeah, but why not try to fix the prices first and then if it doesn't work come up with something to balance the problematic upgrades. Not the other way around.

After a while of small price adjustments the balance team could probably come up with a conclusion somewhat like this:

Faust
30 muni - underpriced, players run entire companies of them
40 muni - balanced, players run a few of them and the players who try to run more have to sacrifice essential parts of their company
50 muni - overpriced, people find other alternatives

[Unkn0wn]

You're still only arguing point 3, which makes me assume you don't have an issue with #1 and 2#

Also, you still haven't explained why units can't be controlled solely (justifying the unit pool system) through pricing but upgrades can.

[Smokaz]

+1
This system would only affect the things WC tries to achieve, instead of limiting random company builds and confusing players too.
have weapons cache add variety to the game instead of taking it away.

This suggestion builds on the current system we have in place, instead of implementing a whole new thing again.

@pony
this WC iteration would only make the game more interesting because it would allow elite infantry to be used more freely.
and even though I partly agree with you that some abilities might be just unbalanced to begin with, spam still creates an issue.
A single faust is rather worthless. You have it on that one squad in your company and if he can use it he uses it. w/e
but if every single squad in your company has a panzerfaust this now means you have them available all the time. allowing tactics to be build around them.
just like you see smoke/flamer tactics be used now thanks to the american officer. his smoke barrage is on recharge, it is always available. if it would have been a two use smoke offmap it wouldn't be that useful at all.

+EIN

I dont know why unknown wants allied players to be able to run all commandos, rangers or airborne. It sounds like just a politically different type of spam. If you're running all rangers or airborne, mg's and static weapons become mega boned by grenades and satchels. Supression goes out the window because these units are pretty cost effective w/fireup and grenades.

Unupgraded storm/fsj spam isn't problematic to the same degree, so this will just cause a imbalance between the supposed elite infantry of the different factions.

Also guess what unupgraded infantry is best at? Fucking backcapping, you derps. You think people will sit in cover and play good and simulate some kind of VCOH TIER 1? They won't. They'll do what seems best to win.

How about:

Scrap fucking cache.
Stop crying about spam.
L2P.

[Unkn0wn]

Seriously, how could you possibly be against units weighing their actual value in pool cost, rather than even unupgraded units weighing as much as their upgraded alter-egos? This isn't about enabling people to spam rangers, it's about allowing people to run more unupgraded rangers or airboune, if they want to (which they currently can't because the system will count them as upgraded) All we're doing is better balancing the unit pool values.

And even if they do spam unupgraded rangers, I don't see how that would be problematic. (Mind you unupgraded rangers will still weigh more than for example riflemen, and obviously still cost more, so it's not like we're lifting the restrictions)

[Smokaz]

I explained this to you on vent, guess I have to repeat it.

But first: I piss on your Jonny Cachee
As long as doctrines do not add costs for buffs, your super imaginative weapons cache will just render a new set of doctrines overpowered. Instead of the cheap upgrades it will be the T4's that buff unit's basic abilities that will be spammed. You even agreed to this. I pointed out top t4 ab, the coming carabines, I can point out the top t4 commandos, the elite armor blitzkrieg ETC ETC.

This solution is just the newest version of Derpfire's derpetiderp and it fails to address the perceived problem, it just shuffles it around and gives it a new face.

Sorry

[Smokaz]

Oh and how I possibly can blahblabh?

I think pool costs are a joke as well, because its just a dumb number not reflecting the unit at all most of the time. I hate it equally as much as I hate Jonny Cache.

[8thRifleRegiment]

I explained this to you on vent, guess I have to repeat it.

But first: I piss on your Jonny Cachee
As long as doctrines do not add costs for buffs, your super imaginative weapons cache will just render a new set of doctrines overpowered. Instead of the cheap upgrades it will be the T4's that buff unit's basic abilities that will be spammed. You even agreed to this. I pointed out top t4 ab, the coming carabines, I can point out the top t4 commandos, the elite armor blitzkrieg ETC ETC.

This solution is just the newest version of Derpfire's derpetiderp and it fails to address the perceived problem, it just shuffles it around and gives it a new face.

Sorry

I second the Motion, +1, and  i think most of the community feels this way . Putting numbers on units is not a wise idea. The way it was before, simply with just pool values on units was the correct way of going about it. This is just creating rules, restricting creativity

[tank130]

I second the Motion, +1, and  i think most of the community feels this way .

4 pages in this thread and only 5 people against any system being put in place and 7 support a system being implemented.

Interesting.

[Spartan_Marine88]

4 pages in this thread and only 5 people against any system being put in place and 7 support a system being implemented.

Interesting.

Don't twist our words tank. We know the weapons cache is hear to stay mainly because a choice FEW want it. Nothing more.

Your offering us a choice between having our dick shot off and our ass shot. Were not REALLY supporting a gushing ass bleeder, but we realize that its the better choice.

[tank130]

Don't twist our words tank. We know the weapons cache is hear to stay mainly because a choice FEW want it. Nothing more.

Your offering us a choice between having our dick shot off and our ass shot. Were not REALLY supporting a gushing ass bleeder, but we realize that its the better choice.

Actually, I was counting the people who state they do not think we need anything implemented and the ones who said we do.

Not a twist by any stretch of the imagination.

[Audemed]

We need abilities like assault changed. That's not a system, nor is it nothing. Don't twist our words, nobody wants a weapon cache.

[smurfORnot]

tank would be a good politician.

[AmPM]

4 pages in this thread and only 5 people against any system being put in place and 7 support a system being implemented.

Interesting.

Most of us just stopped playing.

Fix the problems, don't implement a half assed system and call it balanced.

[tank130]

We need abilities like assault changed. That's not a system, nor is it nothing. Don't twist our words, nobody wants a weapon cache.

Are you retarded or just can't read......LOL

4 pages in this thread and only 5 people against any system being put in place and 7 support a system being implemented.

Interesting.

People who agree with a system similar to, or the same as the WC TOTAL - 7

Unknown - Wants a system
Valexandes -

I like the pool increase Idea. I would honestly like to see more infantry without weapons upgrades.

Leophone -

+1
This system would only affect the things WC tries to achieve, instead of limiting random company builds and confusing players too.

Tymathee

I think there are. would love to see weapon upgrades be special rather than the norm. same with kch, upgraded elite infantry and repairs..

VanOwen -

Anyhow, any steps that makes a reasonable push to do that seems like a fine idea.

Groundfire - need I say more.....
RikiRude -

i like this idea, its much better than what is in place now.

People who think we do not need any kind of system at all TOTAL 7

PonySlaystation -

But first you have to ask yourself, is a weapon cache or a similar system really needed? Because I honestly don't think so

BigDick -

wtf in what universe do you live?

Spartan_Marine88 -

I really don't like the concept for weapons cache and personally don't think its necessary

NightRain -

Why, the hell do we want to LIMIT things in a mod that is meant to offer UNLIMITED choices

Firesparks -

snip.....stuff that could be fix directly instead of trying to "fix" everything by fixing a hard limit on everything.

Smokaz -

Scrap fucking cache. Stop crying about spam. L2P.

8thRifleRegiment -

snip.....Putting numbers on units is not a wise idea.

People who have posted, but it is not clear if they dislike the idea of a system in place, or just don't like the WC in it's current form. or want nothing at all. TOTAL 5

aloha622  -

hmh

smurfORnot -

I stopped playing since cache was implemented

PartyJaeger -

make it simple, stupid (ppl dont want to solve 3 dimensional puzzle of pools to build coy, they want play!

Poppi -

..... One more thing to add to their plate and one more cost to balance. I do admit i do see less spams. Thank god

Demon767 -

i still have 400mu left over on my luft account. someone fix pls

There is no way in hell you can claim I have twisted anyone's words. You guys who claim the ENTER COMMUNITY is against this need to get a grip on reality. Even though I support the system 100%, I can at least have the open mindedness to accept that the community is divided. There is NO CLEAR MAJORITY.

Even if the 5 people in the last group said they are 100% against any system, that still does not mean the entire community, or even a large majority feel this way. For that matter, even if all 5 people in the last group agreed with the WC, it does not mean the majority of the community agrees.

This community bitches, argues, and disagrees with each other on every single topic brought up in these forums. You all will never agree on the same thing. But somehow the Dev team is supposed to magically make you all happy with the decisions we make. but if we make a decision some of you are unhappy with, we are accused of "ramming it down your throats".

[Smokaz]

I think its a fair problem you point out tank, and that it should be put to a broad vote available here on the forum. But exactly what system would the supporters be voting for?  

[Unkn0wn]

Tank has a point, and we have taken 'unpopular' decisions in the past that ended up quite all right. The removal of on-map retreat for example, even gave birth to a spoof video. That being said however, it's obviously in our best interest to find a solution that a wide enough majority can agree with. Personally I'm of the opinion that upgrade pool costs is a good compromise solution that I know for a fact quite more people will probably agree with (people who originally opposed the weapons cache but can settle with something like this) If anyone has a better idea, he's always free to bring it up.

No one's trying to ram anything down anyone's throat, obviously we care a lot about what our community thinks, since without a community we might as well close books. If something clearly doesn't work or is highly unpopular, then we draw our conclusions, though it's important you remain constructive and help us find new solutions towards our goal.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Once again tank your a word twisting moron. You are single handedly killing this mod and too fucking arrogant to see it.

Using comments like Rikis

"i like this idea, its much better than what is in place now."

and saying hes really supporting the idea. Considering whats in place right now, its not really a complement. Its comparing piss to shit, there both bad, but hey piss at least doesnt smell up the room, so i guess i like piss better. Yeah we got new people who have joined the mod. But thats not the WC, its just people already in the community who have tried to draw in friends due to the ineffectual promoting of this mod. And from those i have talked to are starting to already migrate away again due to the half assed WC. 

[Smokaz]

Whats more reasonable to account for the new players? The video/PR thing that was posted, or some highly controversial change in the deep end of the design??