Points on balannce (Part 1)

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[nikomas]

So, I really dont make a lot of serious posts around here (Due to the mood) but well, this is one and I'd apriciate if, well, I got proper answers? I duno, just sayin'

Anyway, so the few balance issues I'd like to bring up are as follow, in my own opinon anyway, feel free to "Educate" me if you have to...


Fist of all, and the largest one... Riflemen! Rework Allied basic infartry...

Now hear me out here, what are Riflemen really? They are platforms for bars and grenade/stickys and the odd recrewing, what value do vanilla riflesquads have outside these roles? This is the mainline and only basic infartry the allies have, and in my opinion this sucks.

You see, riflemen are horribly outmatched by all other infartry. Vanilla riflemen get butchered by even grenadiers and well, it's quite sad to be honest, why for the love of EiR cant the allies have a tougher main infartry unit?

To back up this complaint with the way I figure it's not really balanced is that EiR still uses the vanilla balance mechanics for infartry. Problem is that EiR is not tiered. Vanilla grenadiers are stronger than vanilla rifles (and more cost effective) because they are T2 units, they come onto the field later and require a fuel investment. We then have Bars that make riflemen T2 units (imo) and able to beat down vanilla grenadiers, I'd argue that elite armor bumps grenadiers up to T3 and veterancy on riflemen bumps them up another Tier, as veterancy is a lategame effect.

Anyway, balancing reasons aside US would simply be more fun to play if they got "Assault Squad" or "Support Squad"'s to play with. That and well, rifles suck and are simply not fun to use.



2. This ties into the riflemen rework. Something I dislike a great deal is Supression/Assault. Assault just got reworked so I cant complain about it yet but the way I see it supression fire on both sides still needs to go.

Here is the thing, people say riflemen "Need" supression to work. (if that isnt a sign of a bad unit then I give up on any grasp on the game I have) Anyway, if americans a tougher (and more expensive) main infartry unit then the gimmick that is supression fire is not needed anymore, simple as. If you must keep it I suggest making it a "Hold position" ability, as laying down covering fire is something normally not done on the move anyway.


3. Light Machineguns... this one is pretty simple, what they should do instead of simply being DPS weapons is to slow the enemy, not supress maybe but have a passive debuff to the target they are firing upon, example would be a movement penalty or an accuarcy penalty.



Well, I've got a few more but for now, I'll leave it at those three points... Now, if anyone here took the time to properly read em, thanks, and what do you think? Or did I miss the point of the game somewere along?

[Hicks58]

Riflemen can be used as combat units without any upgrades, however, they cannot do this by themselves. They have to be combined with something else to be useful without upgrades. For example, an astonishing amount of AI based DPS can be put onto a target with a combination of a standard Half-track and a Rifleman squad.

As for Riflemen being weaker than Grenadiers, this is reflected in their costs. Riflemen are 200MP while Grenadiers are 240MP. For every 5 squads of Grenadiers purchased, the Allies can have 6 Riflemen. It should also be noted if you can get your Riflemen into close range combat without taking more losses than them proportionally, you'll most likely beat the Grenadiers. Solid use of cover types can grant the same outcome.

I agree with you on there still being elements of vCoH lingering from their tier system they use, and it shows in other areas apart from Riflemen. Commandos with Stens do 50% less damage against Soldier armour in vCoH to prevent early game rape of PE would be another example.

Assault or support squads could be interesting, but could also end up as mirror balancing. If you can come up with an original idea for a "Mainline" squad then you could be on to something solid.

I've never been a big fan of suppressive fire, but that's because I'm primarily an armoured player. If I do use my Inf account, pointing 6 BAR's at them from 2 squads will either leave them suppressed or dead in good time anyhow. However, you are right in that highlighting that the squad/upgrade has issues if you have to lean on suppressive fire to make your company work.

I'd be happy with seeing suppressive fire entirely kick the bucket, if respective weapons were made cheaper OR better in another area.

LMG's are pretty solid as they stand. Use them defensively and as area denial for infantry. They want to come close, they'll get butchered. If you want an assaulting AI upgrade, get standard grenades + medkit or unlock Scoped MP44's.

There's my wall of text in return for ya.

[TheVolskinator]

Assault or support squads could be interesting, but could also end up as mirror balancing. If you can come up with an original idea for a "Mainline" squad then you could be on to something solid.

Click on the doctrine unlock link in my sig, open the PDF file attached to the OP, and scroll down until you reach the "Combat Team" unit.

[Demon767]

You cant change the core balance of the game. which is weak americans.

[AmPM]

Rifles arr supposed to lose to grens all other things being equal, hence the low cost. Just like rifles beat volks when both are unequiped.

Not sure why this is hard to grasp.

Suppressive fire is fine, it allows americans to stop infantry rushes while remaining mobile, which is what its for.

That's like saying MG42 shouldn't suppress.

[Audemed]

Make marines new non-doctrinal infantry unit. Don't let the buy BAR's or stickies. 30 mun grenades, 50-60 mun zooks. DONE.

[Tymathee]

Make marines new non-doctrinal infantry unit. Don't let the buy BAR's or stickies. 30 mun grenades, 50-60 mun zooks. DONE.

[Computer991]

Make marines new non-doctrinal infantry unit. Don't let the buy BAR's or stickies. 30 mun grenades, 50-60 mun zooks. DONE.

[IJustDontCare]

Thread failing already. In before more sarcasm.

[RikiRude]

Make marines new non-doctrinal infantry unit. Don't let the buy BAR's or stickies. 30 mun grenades, 50-60 mun zooks. DONE.

do you mean lmgs? they cant buy bars anyways.

either way, id love for this.

[AmPM]

OOooor

New unit, Africa Veterans (or similar); a unit of Riflemen with similar or different weapons loadout, +10HP per man. 5 man squad. +10% accuracy built in. Change vet 2 to pure combat vet. No sticky range.

[Spartan_Marine88]

OOooor

New unit, Africa Veterans (or similar); a unit of Riflemen with similar or different weapons loadout, +10HP per man. 5 man squad. +10% accuracy built in. Change vet 2 to pure combat vet. No sticky range.

oh i like it

[NightRain]

A specialized rifleman. Why not make Commandos and Rangers cheaper to make them more apperant for riflemen replacement. Same like Airborne riflemen

[Demon767]

you want marines, because they are the best infantry by far. fucking fail balance!

[AmPM]

A specialized rifleman. Why not make Commandos and Rangers cheaper to make them more apperant for riflemen replacement. Same like Airborne riflemen

Rangers would be, if they had an option for an LMG or BAR. But SMG infantry is so situational that I would never use them as a line unit. Give them 2 BARs for 70mu with no SF and I would use them.

[NightRain]

Rangers would be, if they had an option for an LMG or BAR. But SMG infantry is so situational that I would never use them as a line unit. Give them 2 BARs for 70mu with no SF and I would use them.

Why not both options. BARs for more mobile action and LMG 30' cal for defence. Similarly Brens to Commandos for same purposes. Kinda mirror but still workable. The only problem is the cost and pool.

[CrazyWR]

I've never been a big fan of suppressive fire, but that's because I'm primarily an armoured player. If I do use my Inf account, pointing 6 BAR's at them from 2 squads will either leave them suppressed or dead in good time anyhow. However, you are right in that highlighting that the squad/upgrade has issues if you have to lean on suppressive fire to make your company work.

I'd be happy with seeing suppressive fire entirely kick the bucket, if respective weapons were made cheaper OR better in another area.

LMG's are pretty solid as they stand. Use them defensively and as area denial for infantry. They want to come close, they'll get butchered. If you want an assaulting AI upgrade, get standard grenades + medkit or unlock Scoped MP44's.

Gotta agree entirely with this.

[Smokaz]

I would like to be able to buy 2 more uses of nades on a single squad.

[Spartan_Marine88]

why not just let infantry pick and choose their sides weaponry. It would be fun in my opinion.

[8thRifleRegiment]

We are testing allies having a better basic inf, marines and they are rofl retarded in an american company. Rifleman are perfectly fine where they are, they are in balance with how the american faction plays out