Public Doctrine Assesment #1 Infantry

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[Smokaz]

i think triple bars combined with the Suppress and Manouvre T2 is one of the more obvious overpowered doctrine choices in eir.

Doesn't buff AT. One-trick poney.

[RikiRude]

if they are lover on health he will easier 1 shot them?

oh yeah duh 

[CafeMilani]

Doesn't buff AT. One-trick poney.

APround ATGuns? are you in a bad mood today or what?

[Tymathee]

AFAIK, it takes two shots to kill a KCH member. First one puts him to the health for crits to take effect, second shot pops the crit.

Unless you up the damage high enough to put it straight into the crit barrier, it really wont make any change to a Sniper's ability to handle KCH by itself.

makes sense. whats the point of extra damage if it can't kill anything without criting it? everything but kch dies in one hit already, so i get 25% more damage and....nothing.

more range, lower cooldown, would be more beneficial

[Smokaz]

makes sense. whats the point of extra damage if it can't kill anything without criting it? everything but kch dies in one hit already, so i get 25% more damage and....nothing.

more range, lower cooldown, would be more beneficial

they didnt know this when they designed it? i mean it takes a lot of brainpowa to understand

[TheVolskinator]

So, here's my runthrough after recently swapping doctrines and trying out Armor, AB, Defensive, Blitz, TH, and Luftwaffe.

Thompsons need to be dropped in price, right now the price, pool, and MU upkeep that rangers demand is hardly cost effective enough for use by the general player base (enough of the horse shit about "L2p, then its good". With the influx of newer players, there's going to be a crapload of people that dont have skaffa-grade micro, hell, even myself doesn't see SMG rangers as anything special compared to other elite inf).

Riki was correct, Grease Guns need a price drop as well as granting only 4 SMGs at a time, and then getting +2 with Oversupplied.

Oversupplied should grant either +1 use of or +X range to riflemen grenades*.

Operation Overlord is a good T4, but its missing some extra shazam that I can't really name. The +5 croc range is nearly useless, as is the Sherman Aura (a mortar with smoke could acheive the same effect, and that teir of unlocks support riflespam with TDs and ATGs, not riflespam with shermens--lack of AT = fail company in that case). It might be worth adding a cooldown effect; a flat -40% cooldown to rangers and riflemen (middle ground between the 35% and 50% reductions of EiRs days of insanity) in place of the +5 croc range and sherman aura might be worth looking into. Its a good T4 without a specific focus; TR is "derp kill tanks n shite", L&L is supposed to be "derp, spam support crews".

Allied Grit...this needs an overhaul, plain and simple.

L&L is *the* worst T4 in EiRR, this needs some definate looking into to make it a pickable tree. L&L companies are on par with OV ones, but with the buffs effecting a far smaller percentage of your company.

Infantry Equiptment might be worth making a T2, or at the very least shifting around/adding to what it unlocks:
   *Triple BARs could be added to this as a seperate unlock, and removed from Oversupplied, allowing for the balanced attition of the grenade suggestion.
   Possibly either add M1919 LMGs or replace Grease Guns with them.
   Smoke grenades have a fairly small effect and are relatively impractical to use in covering a mass of advancing troops (IMO). Nothing worth changing, just my thoughts on it.

[Smokaz]

Can I ask a question to the experts in this thread? Whats wrong with grease guns?

[Jstek]

It is my understanding the top T4, Operation Overload doesn't even work.
Wonder how you can judge it balance.

As for the other doctrines, isnt it kinda early to judge if they work or not before they work in game?  I mean look at Airborn; Half of it doesn't even work in game.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Can I ask a question to the experts in this thread? Whats wrong with grease guns?

People don't get that a single rifleman squad with grease guns can roll 2 KCH squads

[DarkSoldierX]

People don't get that a single rifleman squad with grease guns can roll 2 KCH squads

You have got to be kidding me.

Do you even know the stats of a grease gun?

Or are you basing this off 1 encounter where they were in red cover.

Because if you did, you'd know a single vanilla KCH squad does more DPS then a oversupplied rifleman greasegun squad. And you'd also know the riflemen would loose DPS much faster than the KCH squad.

And you'd also know that a MP40 deals more DPS than a grease gun, and also cost less.

Oh, and I almost forgot, you can't use grease guns on the move like a Mp44 can.

[Smokaz]

Thats something a guy can get behind. Grease guns may very well be designed to have differences to mp40s, but they shouldnt be worse for cost. If they are they should be buffed.

I would suggest leaving grease guns out of oversupplied, and balance the price of the upgrade around it giving 6 weapons equally good to the mp40.

[DarkSoldierX]

Thats something a guy can get behind. Grease guns may very well be designed to have differences to mp40s, but they shouldnt be worse for cost. If they are they should be buffed.

I would suggest leaving grease guns out of oversupplied, and balance the price of the upgrade around it giving 6 weapons equally good to the mp40.

The idea is you get a better platform. Which is indeed true, but im not sure its worth a higher price and a lower DPS per gun.

[RikiRude]

Can I ask a question to the experts in this thread? Whats wrong with grease guns?

its not that there's anything hugely wrong with them (they dont seem cost effective imo) its the fact that getting +1 GG compared to getting +1BAR, you gotta go with the bar! you dont need an unlock for a BAR. so giving 4 for less, then getting +2 makes more sense.

[Valexandes]

My biggest issue with Infantry is the pricing of Rangers.
If they were 270 I would use some in my companies as is. With the current cost vs. usefulness I never use any.
I also feel the gmc could use a pricing change and some sort of buff in at least one of the doctrine unlocks.
It also seems to have far worse mobility than the M3 halftrack.

If it's mobility stays the same I would say buff the health or switch the armor to M8 or improve the mobility and leave it as is.

Also locked and loaded has minimal appeal.
A large reduction to allied mortar scatter would make me far more likely to use it.

[AmPM]

My biggest issue with Infantry is the pricing of Rangers.
If they were 270 I would use some in my companies as is. With the current cost vs. usefulness I never use any.
I also feel the gmc could use a pricing change and some sort of buff in at least one of the doctrine unlocks.
It also seems to have far worse mobility than the M3 halftrack.

If it's mobility stays the same I would say buff the health or switch the armor to M8 or improve the mobility and leave it as is.

Also locked and loaded has minimal appeal.
A large reduction to allied mortar scatter would make me far more likely to use it.

The problem with Rangers is that they don't have mid or long range firepower, which means you have to charge a long distance while taking damage and doing nothing back.

I would totally use Rangers if they could buy BARs or LMGs.

[Hicks58]

I've used the GMC's quite a bit and come to the conclusion that it just needs to be able to survive a second Pak hit and have it's repair kit fill up it's health.

Pathing improvements is something that should be done on any unit that it can be done on tbh.

[8thRifleRegiment]

The problem with Rangers is that they don't have mid or long range firepower, which means you have to charge a long distance while taking damage and doing nothing back.

I would totally use Rangers if they could buy BARs or LMGs.

x2 BARs WITHOUT supression for 60mu

[NightRain]

x2 BARs WITHOUT supression for 60mu

One of the greatest LMGs for just 60 muns? 2 of them on top of it? You crazy?

[Hicks58]

On a squad which is already high manpower and high pool.

Nope, I think the craziness is fairly well in check. If you want to have a crap load of BAR Rangers I'd imagine it'd cut into other areas extremely quickly compared to BAR Rifles.

[Smokaz]

The problem with bar rangers would be that if the price wasn't less cost effective than rifles, they would replace them. There would have to be a situation other than  snipers where a 6 man elite armor infantry squad with fireup didn't completely dominate.