People who consider themselves "conservative"

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[RoyalHants]

if everyone hates them,why we stopped papas Adolf closet cleansing?

"Human rights"

[Spartan_Marine88]

Once again, we just happened to be attacking the same piece of land that they were on. I was not about stopping him, just conquering Germany

[RoyalHants]

Lol fail, thought smurf was talking about Israel 

[DarkSoldierX]

I do think Israeli shouldn't have nukes, and that we give them quite a bit too much $, but I do support their existence.

No doubt the majority of the arab nations in that area would use nukes already if they had them. And I also think the whole "human rights" issue is way too biased against Israel. They are criticized for every little mistake, just like its friend the US.

Not to mention they are quite unstable.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Generally though, when it comes to israel i tend to give them a break myself, i mean they almost ceased being a country thirty years ago. It tends to give them a different view of things.

[Malgoroth]

Palestinian dissidents lob RPGs into Israeli territory. A handful of people are killed. Tragic, yes?
Israel responds with a bombing campaign into the Gaza strip (one of the most densely populated areas on the planet) and kills hundreds. Right about there is where I stop feeling bad for Israel.

Here's a thought. Everyone who harps on Iran to dismantle their nuke program, should also harp on Israel to disclose their nuclear arsenal, and then dismantle it should it exist (which it more than likely does). Until that happens, Israel doesn't have a leg to stand on when it bitches and moans about its "safety".  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
If that had been any other country in the middle east, we'd have gone to war within days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
For comparison.

Israel is given far too much leeway by the US when it does something irrational.

Actually, now that I think about it... you want the middle east to quit hating on America? Then let us withdraw all support, military and otherwise for Israel. Boom. problem solved.

[Tymathee]

we're dammed if we do and we're dammed if we don't.

Palestinian dissidents lob RPGs into Israeli territory. A handful of people are killed. Tragic, yes?
Israel responds with a bombing campaign into the Gaza strip (one of the most densely populated areas on the planet) and kills hundreds. Right about there is where I stop feeling bad for Israel.

Here's a thought. Everyone who harps on Iran to dismantle their nuke program, should also harp on Israel to disclose their nuclear arsenal, and then dismantle it should it exist (which it more than likely does). Until that happens, Israel doesn't have a leg to stand on when it bitches and moans about its "safety".   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
If that had been any other country in the middle east, we'd have gone to war within days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
For comparison.

Israel is given far too much leeway by the US when it does something irrational.

Actually, now that I think about it... you want the middle east to quit hating on America? Then let us withdraw all support, military and otherwise for Israel. Boom. problem solved.

emphasis on the boom.

lol lob a few rpg's you're dense. they lob missiles, mortars, have bombed cities, taken soldiers hostage, lol you know what israel went after them with helicopters? Because they got fucking tired of being hit!

If i keep slapping your kids and other people tell you that you should wait, they'll stop and they don't, what would you do?

[DarkSoldierX]

Palestinian dissidents lob RPGs into Israeli territory. A handful of people are killed. Tragic, yes?
Israel responds with a bombing campaign into the Gaza strip (one of the most densely populated areas on the planet) and kills hundreds. Right about there is where I stop feeling bad for Israel.

When a guy gives you a nosebleed and jabs you a few times, after you've said stop multiple times, do you give him only a nosebleed back, or do you hit harder cutting his mouth a bit to ensure he stops?

Now put that on a bigger scale. Where the enemy kills your unarmed citizens. Im not saying some Israeli soldiers didn't kill unarmed people, but the majority definitely tried hard to not hit civilians. Not to mention the enemy likes to fire AKs at choppers while they are within 15m civilians, and also use ambulances to transport their soldiers, which is also a direct violation of the Geneva convention, forcing Israeli helo's to fire upon them making them seem like the bad guy. I can fetch evidence of this faggotry if you'd like.

Here's a thought. Everyone who harps on Iran to dismantle their nuke program, should also harp on Israel to disclose their nuclear arsenal, and then dismantle it should it exist (which it more than likely does). Until that happens, Israel doesn't have a leg to stand on when it bitches and moans about its "safety".   

I agree. But still, Iran is alot more unstable and would be much worse if they had nukes compared to Israel.

[Malgoroth]

In 2008-9 (the years of the incidents I was referring to) Israel lost 45 people to random RPGs and mortar fire (and kidnappings and whatever else).

Israels response killed 2000 people (including over 400 children).

That's potentially 2000 families who are now your enemies when they may not have been before (since not all Palestinians are violent martyrs). Congratulations Israel... you just prolonged the conflict.

That's just the actual shooting side of the story. That's not even mentioning the blockade which has basically reduced the Gaza strip to a poverty stricken slum with 40% unemployment and the vast majority lives off less than 2$ a day (since electricity has been limited forcing most of the factories and workshops there to shut down). You seem shortsighted, so maybe you aren't aware that poverty breeds violence. In the Palestinians case, it turns people into militants who otherwise wouldn't be.

What SHOULD Israel be doing? Well, by working WITH the Palestinians to improve their economy and removing checkpoints and their military from heavily populated zones, terrorist activity in the West Bank area has decreased 97% since 2002.
My God... Israel doesn't have to drop cluster bombs on them at all to achieve positive results! What a concept.

Now... the other thing... if you were to start slapping my children... I wouldn't pull out a gun and shoot you and everyone around you (which is what you would do apparently). I would have you arrested and your children taken away from you since you are obviously an unfit parent. Then I'd fuck your wife while you were getting anal blasted in prison.

[DarkSoldierX]

Now... the other thing... if you were to start slapping my children... I wouldn't pull out a gun and shoot you and everyone around you (which is what you would do apparently). I would have you arrested and your children taken away from you since you are obviously an unfit parent. Then I'd fuck your wife while you were getting anal blasted in prison.

1. Totaly blown out of proportion
2. So... you just made a few potentially new enemys, instead of trying to rehabilitate and compromise with me you break your own morals that israel is supposed to abide by apparently. Proved your own bias there.

In 2008-9 (the years of the incidents I was referring to) Israel lost 45 people to random RPGs and mortar fire (and kidnappings and whatever else).

Yeah and 4574 rockets/mortars fired in that same amount of time. All with the intent of killing as many Israeli people as possible, no matter if they are soldiers, civilians, or children.

Just because the Palestinians are horridly inaccurate doesn't mean they don't have the intent to mutilate and destroy Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAR_Iwq9-R0
Heard those stories of Israel shooting at ambulances breaking the law? Now you know why. Not all of thier attacks were illegal.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e72_1285184255
All those people the gunmen ran by after the shots looked quite unarmed. If Israel returns fire upon them they can and will be blamed for the deaths of the civilians.


I'd give you more video's if liveleak didn't have the worst fucking search engine ever. Theres a quite good one were the gunmen are surrounded by a crowd. Its perfect evidence of why civilian deaths happen.

[Sachaztan]

Yes, because letting Iran have nuclear weapons sounds like an amazing idea to me. I'm sure they'll use those to promote world peace and everlasting love, while solving world hunger.

lol,  what does that have to do with having insane US presidents?

[Sachaztan]

Israel has power, palestinians don't.

Ofc it's not entirely Israels fault, but they are the only ones capable of building a long-term solution. The situation can only get worse as long as they play hardball like they have now. I mean, have you even heard about how the palestinians live now? It's like the black slums during the Apartheid only 10x worse.

[roflmao]

Libertarianism ftw.

[Malgoroth]

I don't see how I made a few potential enemies by having the man who slapped my children arrested. If you're talking about having his children taken away... if he slaps a strangers children he probably beats his own.

What you don't do is open fire wildly at the crowd he's standing in. Which is what Israel basically did when they dropped cluster bombs into the Gaza strip. Not even close to the same thing as an incident where civilians get caught in a local crossfire. 

If the disparity in Palestinian deaths and Israeli deaths doesn't tell you something then I sure as hell won't be able to.

As Sachaztan said, Israel needs to be the big boy here and quit acting like they're justified in every military endeavor they undertake. As I pointed out in my previous post, nonviolent efforts like improving the Palestinian economy and allowing them more room to move without running into an IDF soldier at every intersection goes quite a long way.

[Masacree]

This thread was more successful than my wildest dreams for it.

[Unkn0wn]

Quiz question; which countries are alone in their refusal to sign the Cluster mine Ban Treaty?

[Heartmann]

are we talking American conservatives or orthodox conservatism?

Look this thing with Israel, first of don't use wiki, second, ok according to you 45 Jews died and they retaliated with killing 2000 or something Arab/Persian/Afro-asiatic individuals, and in comparison there are considerably less Jews than Arabs/Persian/Afro-asiatic, so percentage wise i bet the end result is about even ^^

About the difference in EU vs US as states vs countries, yea sure there are different laws, on the other hand the US has only one flag and national identity as a ratified ideal, while the EU as a UPO has several of these and then combined with each and every of the sub identities that spring due to each and every countries pre-existing disposition to handling immigration, the flora and fauna in individuals and socioeconomic ideals and cultural identities differ to a much larger extent than the US.

This said, Sweden as an ideal in the case of the welfare state, its true the country has a good handle on how to cope with the different social problems that arise within its demographic structure BUT,  the country has sever problems in handling integration, PLUS, with only a population 9 million the probability of sever problems compared to US with a much MUCH higher population quota and a much bigger divide between the different socioeconomic groups tailors to more frequent and larger problems than Sweden are used to.

This means in the end, that sure the Swedish welfare model is working for a country with a population of 9 million, but there is no telling, and with low probability that it will have the same or similar effect on a country like the US.