People who consider themselves "conservative"

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[Unkn0wn]

The media is just reinforcing people's 'common' ignorance & stupidity. Which is again why I think it's a terrible idea to have corporate sponsored media. The state should control the media and see to it that it is objective and acting conform the ethics of journalism. This is the case in many european countries and honestly the reason why I'm certain the average voter in any european country is a lot better informed than your average American one.

NEWS by definition is supposed to be an objective representation of what is happening in the country/world. And while there is room for political commentary and debate, that should always be kept to separate programs or segments, not be mixed up 'subtly' with what are facts. When debates do occur, they should allow room for BOTH sides, not just one. It's obvious that corporate sponsored media is unwilling or unable to adhere to these basic principles. Another great legacy of Ronald Reagan's free market ignorance.

[Tymathee]

Well said Mal.
 OR Because the liberal base is PRO gay marriage? (And not as backwards as most american religious voters out there) I don't think liberals are pro marriage just because republicans are against, that's honestly a stupid thing to say.

the whole gay marraige thing was first brought up by the conservatives during bushes era, so they were the first to be against it when it was first even introduced to the system and they shot it down and tried to make a bill banning it which absolutely disappeared.

now, when it first came out, liberals were for it but not as hard as they are now, there were rallies and marches, etc as it is now.

so many liberals were kinda first but the firestorm around it was caused by conservatives first

[Vermillion_Hawk]

To be honest, the political "spectrum" is simply a convenient and simple means to divide a country by lumping certain types of people together into faceless entities capable of being viewed with no sort of emotional attachment whatsoever and being blamed for all the problems by their opposite. Not to mention the personal and social rifts such a system causes.

[Sachaztan]

The media is just reinforcing people's 'common' ignorance & stupidity. Which is again why I think it's a terrible idea to have corporate sponsored media. The state should control the media and see to it that it is objective and acting conform the ethics of journalism. This is the case in many european countries and honestly the reason why I'm certain the average voter in any european country is a lot better informed than your average American one.

Well corporate news should be allowed as a safeguard, but afaik that's allready the case in European countries with a tax-funded news network.

This might seem like a really weird notion to Americans but in stable democracies with little corruption this really works. These news networks tend to be A LOT more factual and unbiased than their corporate counterparts.

In Sweden for an example SVT (the taxfunded news network) have several shows that digs up and searches for corruption and other wrong-doings in society INCLUDING when it's the government itself doing it! The Government doesn't have anything to say about what should be reported or not (apart from laws that apply to everyone ofc). It's only loyalty is to the taxpayers, not the government. This makes for far more accurate and unbiased news than any news run for profit.

[Tymathee]

^ that sounds good.

[AmPM]

Liberals are as close minded as what they call Conservatives, just on different subjects.

Me, I'm a Libertarian. Handle your own fucking business and stop telling people how to live.

[Groundfire]

Well corporate news should be allowed as a safeguard, but afaik that's allready the case in European countries with a tax-funded news network.

This might seem like a really weird notion to Americans but in stable democracies with little corruption this really works. These news networks tend to be A LOT more factual and unbiased than their corporate counterparts.

In Sweden for an example SVT (the taxfunded news network) have several shows that digs up and searches for corruption and other wrong-doings in society INCLUDING when it's the government itself doing it! The Government doesn't have anything to say about what should be reported or not (apart from laws that apply to everyone ofc). It's only loyalty is to the taxpayers, not the government. This makes for far more accurate and unbiased news than any news run for profit.

So, the question is "how do you get a non-corrupt government?"

For some reason, Sweden seems to be this socialistic paradise where you guys can have everything run by the state with little or no corruption or corporate interference.

What the fuck are you guys doing right? Is it because your not a world power? no bloated military directing political policy? Are corporations in bed with your government?

How did this happen, cause you should really share your secret to the rest of the world.

[Jodomar]

Well corporate news should be allowed as a safeguard, but afaik that's allready the case in European countries with a tax-funded news network.

This might seem like a really weird notion to Americans but in stable democracies with little corruption this really works. These news networks tend to be A LOT more factual and unbiased than their corporate counterparts.

In Sweden for an example SVT (the taxfunded news network) have several shows that digs up and searches for corruption and other wrong-doings in society INCLUDING when it's the government itself doing it! The Government doesn't have anything to say about what should be reported or not (apart from laws that apply to everyone ofc). It's only loyalty is to the taxpayers, not the government. This makes for far more accurate and unbiased news than any news run for profit.

Yes because corruption is just not a problem at all in Europe, cough, Italy, cough cough, Greece, cough *(Add the many other European countries here), Cough. I'm tired of people thinking Europe is soooo much better when it's not and facing similar/different set's of issue then the United States. The world in general is a fucked up place, and no one country is better then another, they all have their +'s and -'s.

[AmPM]

So, the question is "how do you get a non-corrupt government?"

For some reason, Sweden seems to be this socialistic paradise where you guys can have everything run by the state with little or no corruption or corporate interference.

What the fuck are you guys doing right? Is it because your not a world power? no bloated military directing political policy? Are corporations in bed with your government?

How did this happen, cause you should really share your secret to the rest of the world.

Simple, they are just kept ignorant of what actually goes on so don't perceive any corruption =)

[Sachaztan]

So, the question is "how do you get a non-corrupt government?"

For some reason, Sweden seems to be this socialistic paradise where you guys can have everything run by the state with little or no corruption or corporate interference.

What the fuck are you guys doing right? Is it because your not a world power? no bloated military directing political policy? Are corporations in bed with your government?

How did this happen, cause you should really share your secret to the rest of the world.

Its all great that it looks like that to you, so i wont spoil your fairytale. Believe it or not, a country can have other problems than corruption and corporate interference 

[Sachaztan]

Yes because corruption is just not a problem at all in Europe, cough, Italy, cough cough, Greece, cough *(Add the many other European countries here), Cough. I'm tired of people thinking Europe is soooo much better when it's not and facing similar/different set's of issue then the United States. The world in general is a fucked up place, and no one country is better then another, they all have their +'s and -'s.

Europe is not a country, incase you didn't know. If you were to actually study a few of the countries there you would see that they aren't all that similar. Saying that two countries in Europe are the same just because they are both European is about as true as saying that USA and Mexico is basically the same thing.

This goes for anyone that thinks that Europe is just a collection of identical countries.

[AmPM]

Europe is not a country, incase you didn't know. If you were to actually study a few of the countries there you would see that they aren't all that similar. Saying that two countries in Europe are the same just because they are both European is about as true as saying that USA and Mexico is basically the same thing.

This goes for anyone that thinks that Europe is just a collection of identical countries.

So sort of like people that think the United States is a collection of identical states? I mean shit, we have the equivalent of 50 countries here, each with it's own variations on laws, dialect and culture.

[Groundfire]

That question was largely rhetorical. So if the state is prone to corruption, why would you want your media to be controlled by it? You essentially make the state into a large corporation. Capitalism is everywhere, the question is how much of the economy does the state own

Perhaps since Sweden is a smaller state than say compared to Germany, England or the U.S. your state does not have the power to overstep its democratic restraints.

Perhaps socialism is only good in small doses, lest you get another soviet union, or china, or it goes fascisitic like the current U.S.

Idk, just thinking aloud.

Europe is not a country, incase you didn't know. If you were to actually study a few of the countries there you would see that they aren't all that similar. Saying that two countries in Europe are the same just because they are both European is about as true as saying that USA and Mexico is basically the same thing.

This goes for anyone that thinks that Europe is just a collection of identical countries.

Lol, your apart of the EU mate. You are no longer part of a nation state.

[Sachaztan]

Lol, your apart of the EU mate. You are no longer part of a nation state.

*facepalm*

[Groundfire]

[Unkn0wn]

The EU is far from being a country, in its current state it's certainly not a federal institution either. There's still a lot of areas in which the nation states make all the calls. And comparing the US states with EU countries is just outright wrong, the differences between eu countries are much larger than the ones between American states. (Which is also why federalising the european continent is going to be much harder than it was to federalise young american states)

Perhaps socialism is only good in small doses, lest you get another soviet union, or china, or it goes fascisitic like the current U.S.

Sweden isn't socialist, LOL. Socialism doesn't exist in Europe, yet American media somehow portays Europe today as consisting of socialist states (that are 'failing', when in fact the largest culprit again is the financial sector)

Americans really need to get their definitions straight. Sweden is a Social Democracy. That's still not even close to a socialist state. Most EU countries are social democracies or 'welfare states'. And the system works, even in larger countries. (Though it is at its finest in smaller countries) Please do compare statistics between your average european nation and the USA.

Also, you can prevent or deter corruption by regulation. This is why EU politics, why still being prone to lobbying have a larger grip on corporate interests than American politics. There's more regulation. For most Americans regulation = Big government = Socialism = Communism though, so I'm not even going to bother going in on this subject. It's the lack of regulation that put us into the financial crisis of 2008 and the subsequent economic crisis. And it's the lack of regulation that will put is in another one. If you can't understand this, I would strongly encourage you to take an economics class on the subject of the recent financial/economic crisis.

[Groundfire]

Americans really need to get their definitions straight. Sweden is a Social Democracy. That's still not even close to a socialist state. Most EU countries are social democracies or 'welfare states'. And the system works, even in larger countries. (Though it is at its finest in smaller countries) Please do compare statistics between your average european nation and the USA.

Not to split hairs here, because I know of your education on the matter, but aren't you comparing a political system to an economic system? I was speaking to the economic. I know Sweden is a social democracy, but the very definition of socialism is that the state collectively owns and distributes capital.

Sach even stated that state run media exists in his country. I would assume most of the health care industry is too. They are probably autonomous state enterprises. Being as I am an American, I have no idea how far it webs out, but I hope you can understand the confusion. Sure, its not "Socialist" from the mouth of Marx, but is it still not some variation? Possibly one that works?

[AmPM]

Also

"In the interim, Horst Seehofer of the Christian Social Union (CSU), the Bavarian sister party of the CDU, will be acting president."

There are no religious parties in Europe right

[Sachaztan]

Also

"In the interim, Horst Seehofer of the Christian Social Union (CSU), the Bavarian sister party of the CDU, will be acting president."

There are no religious parties in Europe right

Ofc there is, why wouldn't there be?

[Unkn0wn]

There are, often parties with christian in their name, but they're not nearly as conservative or predominant as they are in US politics.