[WH] Puma

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[NightRain]

How come Puma is 9 pool? Both variants are 9 pool. Is it worth this much pool?

Resource wise it is in good balance when thinking its effectiveness vs cost.


I hereby suggest this.

A Fully increased Line of Sight for the puma to match one of a Bike. We're talking about a big fat Recon unit without any ability to harm vehicles but ability to haras enemy infantry and chase after snipers. Aka fat better damage output Scout. This is for the Puma 20mm. I believe it'd be more useful and would be able to sustain more damage than a jeep but still all the regular weaknesses of a puma is applied.

On a further notice. There are only few Doctrine abilities that boost Puma's effectiveness and they mostly offer them more speed or 10% less recieved damage/accuracy. With one exception of Terror pumas being different.

With this extra line of sight. Puma could be used in recon, scouting, and harshing the enemy without it driving into a blind death. On a further notice this thing is also 6 pop. Aka worth 2 bikes which can put a decent damage burst when paired- also it costs more resources than the two bikes therefore I do not see much of a balance issue right there. Also with this extra LoS it could be used to possibly kite- even if its pathing is what it is.



Discuss.

[NightRain]

As most Puma threads have been more or less about the unit itself I'm arising its high pool cost as an issue. But it appears that SOME people Agree that Puma does not deserve this much of a pool

Mods your answers please.

[NightRain]

I hereby suggest this.

A Fully increased Line of Sight for the puma to match one of a Bike. We're talking about a big fat Recon unit without any ability to harm vehicles but ability to haras enemy infantry and chase after snipers. Aka fat better damage output Scout. This is for the Puma 20mm. I believe it'd be more useful and would be able to sustain more damage than a jeep but still all the regular weaknesses of a puma is applied.

On a further notice. There are only few Doctrine abilities that boost Puma's effectiveness and they mostly offer them more speed or 10% less recieved damage/accuracy. With one exception of Terror pumas being different.

With this extra line of sight. Puma could be used in recon, scouting, and harshing the enemy without it driving into a blind death. On a further notice this thing is also 6 pop. Aka worth 2 bikes which can put a decent damage burst when paired- also it costs more resources than the two bikes therefore I do not see much of a balance issue right there. Also with this extra LoS it could be used to possibly kite- even if its pathing is what it is.

[NightRain]

and instead of giving the puma 55 sight like a bike, how bout 42.5 sight, its long enough that it can snipe but not too long that it can act like a bike.

or u can use it to support support weapons from being flanked and allow it to see farther.

This wouldn't be bad but I'd improve it even further. When on the move 42.5 sight but when standing still it increases to 50 or something.Allows it to be both mobile and immobile recon unit.

[NightRain]

Either way the Pool has to come down, its way too high for the 2cm. It'd still be too high if it was a recon unit too.

[NightRain]

Ummm...Grenadiers are NOT the counter to a dedicated ANTI INFANTRY platform. Use a P4, Ostwind, ATG instead....

And yea, the Puma needs a Pop decrease or an ability increase.

Not a population decrease, just a pool decrease.

[NightRain]

Alright chaps, take yer whining and complaining AND fighting to somewhere else, try PMs or Ventrilo instead of a balance discussion.

This post can be removed once a mod shows balance

Heres a idea. Some mod clean up the thread from useless non-contributing posts to reduce the post ammount to the useful posts made by people who have contributed their concerns.

[tank130]

Heres a idea. Some mod clean up the thread from useless non-contributing posts to reduce the post ammount to the useful posts made by people who have contributed their concerns.

Done.
If it goes off topic or a bitch fest starts, it gets locked.

Let's talk about the Puma please.

[Tymathee]

Done.
If it goes off topic or a bitch fest starts, it gets locked.

Let's talk about the Puma please.

you know what, i discussed viable options for the puma that were deleted, why is only nightrain the only posts here.

btw, just to help out, here are all the other threads i was talking about that discussed this.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=21375.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=19317.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=21723.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=19111.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=22457.0

[PonySlaystation]

I don't see how the pool cost is a problem because WM have so few vehicles. The problem with the puma and the flammenwerfer is not that you can't have many of them, because you can have many of them. I don't see how you would run out of pool except if you have more than 20 halftracks, which would be about as pointless as having 30 bikes in your company.

[tank130]

Please keep on topic

[AmPM]

Could increase pen on the 20mm, make it good vs LVs and infantry, then give the 50mm modifiers vs TD/Med and such to provide a mobile counter.

Gives each a role that befits their costs.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Could increase pen on the 20mm, make it good vs LVs and infantry, then give the 50mm modifiers vs TD/Med and such to provide a mobile counter.

Gives each a role that befits their costs.

While i could accept this i just want to ask why the armored car for PE is so much better i mean same gun right? so shouldn't performance be identical or at least not such a disparity.

[Ahnungsloser]

Could increase pen on the 20mm, make it good vs LVs and infantry, then give the 50mm modifiers vs TD/Med and such to provide a mobile counter.

Gives each a role that befits their costs.

Eh Voila. M8 is useless now.

[AmPM]

Not really, M8 would have a better main gun than 20mm and better AI than the 50mm while maintaining things like mines.

[PonySlaystation]

While i could accept this i just want to ask why the armored car for PE is so much better i mean same gun right? so shouldn't performance be identical or at least not such a disparity.

First of all the PE armored car is more mobile and has flank speed. It is also surrounded by an entire faction of vehicles, so it can be used in an entirely different way.

Let me take an example scenario: You have a scout car HMG42 and an Armored Car. A 57mm is shooting at you, the Scout Car is suppressing all the American infantry so the 57mm will of course focus his fire on the SC to kill it asap. This allows the AC to either go around and kill the 57mm or kill most of the infantry. You can't do that with a Puma and an HMG42 or whatever slow support weapons you have you're not going to be able to support it the same way.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Eh Voila. M8 is useless now.

The upgun puma is supposed to be the answer to the m8.

[Smokaz]

Bring back Jinker and +10 range for puma at vet 3.

M8 gets the double mine at vet 2, which imo, is really powerful. (M8 mine is close to demo vs inf)

[Ahnungsloser]

The upgun puma is supposed to be the answer to the m8.

I imagine that the discussed increased penetration of the 20mm makes the upgun unnecessary.

Bring back Jinker and +10 range for puma at vet 3.

M8 gets the double mine at vet 2, which imo, is really powerful. (M8 mine is close to demo vs inf)

+ 2x the possibility to nearly instagib a Puma.

[NightRain]

I imagine that the discussed increased penetration of the 20mm makes the upgun unnecessary.

AmPm suggested that 50mm would be used more as a medium tank killer by giving modifiers vs M10 armor and Sherman armor or along those lines.