Wher tanks are NOT specialized (panther)

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[nikomas]

So with all the moaning about the panther among other things here, I decided to make this post about how among other things I dont think you can class all tanks in "AT/AI" like some want to do here, it's a bit late so please bear with grammar errors. Like the title, I never saw wher tanks* as being overly specialized to any certain direction and if you compare to brits for example, you'll start to see this. First I'll write how I'd describe the wher one and then lets take the brit ones, and why I think calling the panther "AT specialized" is, well, you get it.

_{*StuH is a doctrinal outliner and reward units are their own thing, the stuh more of a howitzer than a tank anyway}

P:IV - Medium Jack_{(of all trades)}: So to start with we have the P4, it's mostly called an AI tank due to how we play EiR but it's actually not the only thing it does, while it does not compete with heavier armor and dedicated AT it does in fact fend of other mediums and lights, it can take on the basic Sherman and come out on top and it'll penetrate a Cromwell on almost any shot. This is by no means an AI tank but a general medium tank that can take on almost anything in or below it's own size class.

StuG IV - At it's core it'll do the same as the PIV, but with more restrictions. Stug is still a generalist assault gun without a turret and this does limit it's mobility. However it can still harm infantry pretty well with it's buffed mg and the gun can hit them reliably to. This is by no means an AI killer but it's not focused on AT either, following the same trend the PIV it does most roles reasonably taken it's price into account. It's neither an AI nor AT tank but a support that can help with both.

PV- And now we get to the panther, for as long as I've been playing EiRR this tank has been a multirole tank. It is currently priced at 450 fuel and as long as I can remember it's been able to preform most roles, indeed, if you were to slice it's power up it is skewed towards the tank hunter role. But just because it does that role well does not mean it's the only thing it's supposed to do. Compare this tank to other dedicated tank hunters in this game and the price and the tank itself would not justify it being intended for AT use only. As it was in real life I believe that in this game it's still a Medium-Heavy multirole tank, while the bulk of it's power comes in hunting down tanks, saying that is her only role is selling is short and in my opinion, makes her a complete waste of resources.

Now Brits, here are some specialized tanks

Cromwell - About the same price as a PIV, but need ablative armor and vet 3 to even stand a chance at tanking on a PIV... THIS, is an anti AI/LV tank that relies entierly on speed and the fact that your opponent wont shoot back.
Firefly - Zero** AI capability, but higher AT capability than the panther at a cheaper price... Used right it'll kick a so called "AT" panther in the shnoz
Churchill - Moving fortress style tank, for the most part they have shitty weaponry and their main strength is being giant bullet sponges

_{**Or so people say, but I've had fireflies score 10-15 inf kills now and then when buffed by CCT and with the +10% RE T1, does this make them broken as well since that's what so many call out the panther on doing with the doc buffs?}

These, are some specialized ass tanks



If I got anything wrong I'll correct it when I wake up, if you have to tell me that I'm wrong on this go ahead, the reason I'm writing this is because I want to know why some of you think I'm wrong about some of this. And for the record? I dont even use the panther all that much as I prefeer PIV's and Pumas, so I'm not defending it out of self interest.

[Demon767]

The firefly can snipe inf just aswell as Panther can now

[nikomas]

Not THAT bad demon, at long/mid the firefly is 0.17/0.2 against all relevant axis infantry types and the panther is 0.34/0.4, panther still has twice the accuracy of the firefly... I can read RGD's yo! Unless I'm reading these things wrong, very possible after all.

Then again, panthers move around much more and unless I'm reading this wrong again with the 0.65 moving penalty the FF and Panther acc vs inf is almost the same if the panther is moving and the FF is stationary, For what that's worth...

Then AGAIN, the panther has a reload of 7 and a CCT buffed firefly is like 4 at long range, with the FF enjoying that longer range... Alright, I guess they are pretty equal if the FF gets a CCT and keeps long range, and given that's still cheaper they are suddenly kinda equal... That's pretty sad tbh


I guess what I'm saying is... panther sucks vs inf now if you compare it to the dedicated sucks at AI FF? lol

[LiquiDeath]

on reverse side, what about jumbo role?, it is quite a good tank killer as well imho. pool should go up as well...?

[NightRain]

StuG IV is a Sherman killer. 50% more damage versus Sherman. Also has a good frontal armor (Better than P4) Its the weakest thing is its health and aim time. Health being 400 and aim time being...eh can't access corsix. Long though. Good MG, aka StuG is one of the best platforms axis have

Though being assault gun and all, StuGs primary mission is to support infantry pushes and offer that long range AT ability.

[CrazyWR]

Yes.  Stug is smaller more fragile AT role.  Panther is heavier AT role.  Ostwind is more fragile AI role.  P4 is medium AI Role.  Tiger/KT are heavy AI role.  This is how Wehr tanks have always been.  Simply because some dumbass changed the panther gun to rape infantry for a little bit does not mean things have alway been like that OR SHOULD BE LIKE THAT.  Now that it has been nerfed, it is more reasonable, although the mg could stand to be toned down a bit more.

For PE, panther serves as heavy AT, while P4IST handles infantry.  Panzer Elite do not have a medium tank.  Everyone has ALWAYS agreed on this.  Somehow you're trying to tell me that all the sudden the panther is a medium jack of all trades tank?  No.  It is a specialized heavy AT unit.

[Demon767]

Somehow you're trying to tell me that all the sudden the panther is a medium jack of all trades tank?  No.  It is a specialized heavy AT unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9WjcGdxuM

[Spartan_Marine88]

Somehow you're trying to tell me that all the sudden the panther is a medium jack of all trades tank?  No.  It is a specialized heavy AT unit.

Just goes to show you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The panther carried standard AP rounds, HE rounds for dealing with infantry as well as carrying small amounts of specialized AP rounds.

The Panther was a step up from the P4, and originally carried the title P5, but Hitler didn't think it was cool enough and decided that it should be changed to something more.

It is clear you know very little about tanks, so until you do a fair amount of research into the subject, how about you stay clear of such topics?

BTW anyone who tells me that the Panther can't be balanced to its real life usage so that it fits into the game, can blow me.

[DarkSoldierX]

Just goes to show you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The panther carried standard AP rounds, HE rounds for dealing with infantry as well as carrying small amounts of specialized AP rounds.

The Panther was a step up from the P4, and originally carried the title P5, but Hitler didn't think it was cool enough and decided that it should be changed to something more.

It is clear you know very little about tanks, so until you do a fair amount of research into the subject, how about you stay clear of such topics?

BTW anyone who tells me that the Panther can't be balanced to its real life usage so that it fits into the game, can blow me.

that moment when somone comes in and starts talking about realism.


I agree with CrazyWR, panther has always been a a specialized heavy AT unit, regardless of its old ability to snipe a still infantryman every now and then.

[smurfORnot]

KT are heavy AI role

Made me lol.

[CrazyWR]

Just goes to show you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The panther carried standard AP rounds, HE rounds for dealing with infantry as well as carrying small amounts of specialized AP rounds.

The Panther was a step up from the P4, and originally carried the title P5, but Hitler didn't think it was cool enough and decided that it should be changed to something more.

It is clear you know very little about tanks, so until you do a fair amount of research into the subject, how about you stay clear of such topics?

BTW anyone who tells me that the Panther can't be balanced to its real life usage so that it fits into the game, can blow me.

yes, IRL, it was a medium tank.  I'm not a moron.  This is not real life.  This is COH.  And COH has always had the panther in that role.  So kindly stfu.

[aeroblade56]

As far as i know vcoh was the late game counter to the shermans.

[Smokaz]

Alternatively, it could keep the 0.6 accuracy and get a nasty fuel nerf? Would anyone actually prefer that?

[smurfORnot]

600 fuel!!!

[Spartan_Marine88]

yes, IRL, it was a medium tank.  I'm not a moron.  This is not real life.  This is COH.  And COH has always had the panther in that role.  So kindly stfu.

Fine, if Panther can be  a TD, i want Sherman to be a Tank Destroyer too.

Know what, this isn't Vcoh so if thats your argument kindly GTFO because you are a moron for making that argument.

As far as i know vcoh was the late game counter to the shermans.

It was. Its role in vcoh isn't applicable any more, people just don't realize that.

[nikomas]

Or rather, if you want to make the panther a TD give it TD properties, range among other things come to mind. I dont like having expensive TD's exchaning shots with the enemy, people are supposed to wanna gtfo when under TD fire.

[DarkSoldierX]

Fine, if Panther can be  a TD, i want Sherman to be a Tank Destroyer too.

Know what, this isn't Vcoh so if thats your argument kindly GTFO because you are a moron for making that argument.

It was. Its role in vcoh isn't applicable any more, people just don't realize that.

And EiR would be boring if we made all the tanks like what you want. Jagdpanther would be pwning infantry, firefly would be killing inf, ect.

The only choice given will be "Do I want a big expensive tank? or a smaller cheaper tank? Because they both do the same thing"

AKA boring gameplay

Or rather, if you want to make the panther a TD give it TD properties, range among other things come to mind. I dont like having expensive TD's exchaning shots with the enemy, people are supposed to wanna gtfo when under TD fire.

It does have range lol

[Spartan_Marine88]

Jagdpanther would be pwning infantry, firefly would be killing inf, ect.

Why? Both those tanks were Tank Destroyers they weren't given anti-infantry shells.

And for your information Dark, the JagdPanther DOES a good job against infantry.

Understand the difference yet? I want the panther to act like a panther, not a heavily armored m10.

[3rdCondor]

I don't really call panthers on to kill infantry tbh. They do what they do very well.

[DarkSoldierX]

Why? Both those tanks were Tank Destroyers they weren't given anti-infantry shells.

And for your information Dark, the JagdPanther DOES a good job against infantry.

Understand the difference yet? I want the panther to act like a panther, not a heavily armored m10.

Go play men of war then and get your panther. For EiR it would still be Mr. Bland.

Part of what makes axis more interesting to many is the more focused vehicles.