Thoughts on balance?

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[pqumsieh]

I just wanted to give everyone the opportunity to discuss factional balance and any particular issues they might have with the meta-game. Please try to be both constructive and informed on any issues you do decide to bring up.

This is not a discussion amongst everyone, this is your chance to tell me what your thoughts are. If you disagree with someone else I don't want you to make a statement about it. This is simply YOUR opinion, please avoid arguments.

Cheers

[Mysthalin]

Stormtroopers - need to finally lose ability to buy double-shreks. Nothing else in the game - and I mean nothing, can field enough anti-tank to one-shot most tanks for just 10 popcap - and to be able to do it with such impunity.

Henschel Anti-Tank Strafing Run - needs a massive nerf. It's already potentially the best off-map in the game with just a single fly-over, at the very least it shouldn't call in 2 planes.

Armour White Phosphorous Strike - needs a significant buff. It is absolutely useless in it's current state, with it's best use being relying on the enemy having a wirblewind to shoot the fucker down so it becomes an impromptu V1.

Wirblewind - needs to be remade to either deal good suppression, or to deal damage. Not fail massively at doing both.

Flakvierling - conversely, needs a nerf to stop insta-gibbing entire squads at long range. Nothing else is able to do anything even remotely similar.

Axis Sniper - either needs to lose some of it's ROF (the argument on "axis squads are smaller" completely falls apart when considering support weapons (priority target for snipers) and the British), or to increase in price.

Commando Sniper - needs to lose the ability to scout for itself so well. I'd suggest nerfing sight to 45.

Sapper veterancy - needs to stop stacking recieved damage so much. Vet 2 sappers with a captain surviving tank shots like pros? K.

Hull down - a fundamental doubling in effective health on demand. As a T3? Oh, movement is impaired. Who honestly gives a fuck. Nerf to 0.85 rec dmg/pen. Something I've been pushing for for AAAAGES.

"The Flower-Gun" Flakpanzer 43 - Revert the 0.5 damage nerf to it. Just making it have a set-up time was more than enough of a nerf to it.

[8thRifleRegiment]

wirblewind does deal massive supression and massive damage, try them sometime. thier squishy as fuck though

[RikiRude]

Armour WP rounds - Good gravy, this thing is such shit, I've been beating the drum for far too long, in its current state you could give it 6 uses, and make 3 of them free and it MIGHT be worthy of the T2 position it sits in, or give it a good buff, because this thing doesnt kill, ever. does slight damage if you are lucky. Whose idea was it anyways if I can ask?

Storms - I totally agree with mysth here, another thing I've been gunning for I had a whole huge thread about this months ago and everyone disagreed for some reason. At least defensive has to get a T2 to get double shrecks on grens, but storms, especially battle hardened, it's just too much.

these are my two biggest ones, i dont play enough to talk about anything else. I feel that acrp round marders do a little too much damage, but i dont have enough experience to debate.

[IJustDontCare]

Honestly its hard to talk balance when many doctrines don't have all their abilities working or some are broken.

Examples:

Stag double repair = you only get 1 even if you buy 2
Infantry locked and loaded = mortars, HMGs, ATGs still have 3 men instead of 4 like it states. ATGs also don't have sprint like the doc ability states.
17s and mortars still can't build emplacements in the RCE doc like it says on the top teir 2.

Many more abilities not working I'm sure.

You could argue that those may not make much of a difference, but my point is, its hard to talk balance before everything is working and/or implemented.

Thoughts?

[ALLiDOisWIN]

Honestly its hard to talk balance when many doctrines don't have all their abilities working or some are broken.

Examples:

Stag double repair = you only get 1 even if you buy 2
Infantry locked and loaded = mortars, HMGs, ATGs still have 3 men instead of 4 like it states. ATGs also don't have sprint like the doc ability states.
17s and mortars still can't build emplacements in the RCE doc like it says on the top teir 2.

Many more abilities not working I'm sure.



You could argue that those may not make much of a difference, but my point is, its hard to talk balance before everything is working and/or implemented.

Thoughts?

Umm... those work...

[terrapinsrock]

Stormtroopers - need to finally lose ability to buy double-shreks. Nothing else in the game - and I mean nothing, can field enough anti-tank to one-shot most tanks for just 10 popcap - and to be able to do it with such impunity.

Double shrecks, while extremely effective, are a HUGE munitions sink, and one jeep or Recon squad can easily ruin a Double shreck Storm squads day which makes them a very high risk-high reward type unit.

Henschel Anti-Tank Strafing Run - needs a massive nerf. It's already potentially the best off-map in the game with just a single fly-over, at the very least it shouldn't call in 2 planes.

Armour White Phosphorous Strike - needs a significant buff. It is absolutely useless in it's current state, with it's best use being relying on the enemy having a wirblewind to shoot the fucker down so it becomes an impromptu V1.

+1




Flak 88- Defensive arty for the 88 doesn't need to be there anymore as it is a AA or AT gun and should not serve as arty. Instead, we should give a buff to the Walking Stuka, which could use a possible accuracy buff, as its one of the worst arty pieces in EIR.

Commandos- Tbh Commandos as they stand aren't even worth the munitions and manpower sunk into them. They either need a health buff or damage buff (with stens) as they are just not worth it atm.

Fallschirmjägers- Needs a damage buff, even in green cover and with cloak cannot properly fight anything at all.

Tank Destroyers - Arguably one of the most UP doctrines for PE (and Axis in general), while APCR could use a  nerf, one squad of rangers comes and its game over.  I think  damage and/or health buffs to the Stummel could solve or alleviate this.

Rangers- They have become new gods of EIR. Their new buffs have made them a serious problem, and the LMGS have now made the Rangers into the new "go to" unit for the Allies and nothing short of Stuh's or Axis heavy armor can stop them currently (other than 4 man KCH).

Red Devils- For a T4, it is the only way a Commando coy can do really anything, and its effect is negligible at best.

[pqumsieh]

good posts, keep it up guys.

[TheVolskinator]

Garand/Carbine buff (Overlord T4) - Should be a flat buff. The AoE for the Officer's buff is so small that tying it to the aura almost seems silly. Hell, it's not even comparable to the Officer's base aura and you don't need a T2 and a T4 for it!

Officer Aura - Needs to have the 15% damage removed and replaced with something else that isnt /retardedface.

Agree with the Stormtrooper change.

Remove the LMGs from Rangers and give them to Riflemen. Rangers are far too good with LMGs. Hell, even Skaffa got bored with using them because they were so good.

When the model is released, methinks PE could do with the StuG III. Ranger bazookas basically hardcounter PE at this point. PE could make do with a StuG-like non-doctrinal unit that is meh at AI and AT, but can eat handheld shots.

[CrazyWR]

On the issue of wirblewinds, I think the only change necessary is to give them P4ist type armor, as right now zooks/any handheld AT at all eat them up.

Storm shreks...maybe a price increase at the least, I realize its expensive, but they are just too powerful with cloaking and dmg output.  

Ranger LMG's-I don't really know what to do here, but their damage output is insane.  

Stag price change needs reverted for Brits.

M18s could use a lower ROF or some sort of nerf to dps...

WP offmap needs buffed

Rocket Arty needs less spread and a slightly longer delay before coming down...you can drop it on a tank right now and if the tank doesn't move at all it only takes 1 shot typically...but its very hard to dodge if dropped on infantry as the first shot comes down very fast

AB in general needs upgraded...I'm not sure if you guys have a plan there? I assume its under control.

Not sure if allowing the last man in doctrinally upgraded squads(+1 man) being 0 pop is good for the game...0 man volks squads for instance capping/holding territory seems broken.

Puma MG seems a little overpowered.  And since it is on the upgun puma now, there seems little reason to get regular ones, as the upgun can handle both roles now.

Panther repair price needs upped to differentiate it from the p4s and recognize its status as the superior/heavy type tank.  Right now p4s are 50 and panthers are only 60...

Also, is there a reason AB units can have fireup and stickies, but PE units can't have sprint and Magnetic AT nades?

Ketten hardcap of 2 mines per ket should be removed.  If they don't kill you all game, you should be able to place as many mines as you can salvage munis for.  Salvaging is time consuming and occasionally risky, and kettens are one-shotted by most things...

Napalm strike tends to miss the box laid out for it, usually with the middle of the strike occuring in the front of the target box, and the end of hte target box being missed altogether.

Thats all I can think of right now.  

[jackmccrack]

AB LMGs and Ranger LMGs are too strong.

[TheVolskinator]

Ranger LMGs are too strong.

Fixed.

[3rdCondor]

1) Stormtroopers should maintain their double shrek capabilities, but it should be increased to 300 mun. It's a huge munitions sink, and they are losing the elite armor benefits of the tier 4, which means that riflemen can kill them easily so long as you dodge the bundle nade. Dodging bundle nades suck, but that's how micro is involved ppl. Losing the armor makes them vulnerable, and double shrek storms with nades would theoretically cost about 370 munitions (because you sure as hell aren't gonna get them without kits). Increase the price to make things even. Don't remove double shreks.

2) Scoped Mp44 upgrade should be increased in price. In my opinion, it's far too cost effective and should be limited.

3) The offmap artillery "cap" should be reduced to 1. This is probably controversial, but hear me out please. Rocket artillery, large arty barrage, airburst, firestorm, v1, etc need to be limited so that you unlock it but start with 0. If you want to spend the support points, you will earn 1 use in battle. If your sector doesn't have any support points at all, you don't get to call in your offmap arty ability. This sort of makes sense because if your sector has 0 support points, why should you pull arty out of your ass anyways? This will "limit" offmap spam. There can be some discretion on some smaller abilities, but I'm sure you all know which major abilities I'm talking about.

4) King tiger should get a pool reduction buff. The problem with the KT isn't the cost, it's that you can friggin field more than like 1 other decent tank usually with this big ass tank in your build. There's a lot of word going around about buffing it's accuracy, which I disagree with. I think starting with a pool reduction may help balance by allowing players to still field acceptable amounts of armor along with it in their companies. King tigers spearhead through the line, so buffing it's accuracy will make 57mm/6 pounder defensive lines a joke. Tbh, the saving grace that an allied player has is that the king tiger won't always necessarily 1 shot their at guns, because it might miss. It's damage capabilities far exceed the tiger, and we all know that tigers are great at killing at guns.

5) Tiger/ Panther also limited to one per company.

[NightRain]

1) Stormtroopers need to lose their Double schreck ability. Offer them one Schreck and that is it.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=23269.0

2) M8/T17 must lose their ability to cap territory. Being able to repair, shoot, and move is already bad enough but the ability to proceed to cap and hold territory makes infantry obsolete when you can have these. The Mobility T2 breaks the balance of these two. Either ability to cap goes to T4 (prevents Repair move and shoot) or is removed entirely.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=24351.0


3) Panther's pool need to come down. It is way too large considering the trible nerf it recieved. (Less inf acc, higher pool, M18 change)

4) Mobile Artillery price is extremely expensive compared to immobile artillery. Especially considering that one of the immobile ones can be changed into a mobile one.

[TheVolskinator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjbGi0x3kg&feature=related <- srs argument.

On topic, I think the Panther should have its AI modifiers set to 0.5. 0.6 was a bit much, but 0.4 was overdone (IMO) as a nerf. Maybe strike a middle ground.

[aeroblade56]

Remove double schreks stormies or do something to stormies in general, they recieve to many buffs and abilities  For such a hard unit to kill such as sprint aura and elite armor and Bundle nades.

Would like to see Hvap improved somehow, currently serves no purpose with the m18 being now strong.

Would like to see Churchills recieve a buff to speed or something as ablative in the new doctrine is being taken away and at the rate  a pak fires and ambushes it can sink a few number of shots before getting out of danger.

Would like 17lbr movement speed increased slightly as the pak 40 seems superior with officer buff since it can cloak and moves faster.

Axis officer Needs to recieve a something As i feel like he also increases damage on faust as well as support weapons and on top of a nice junk of health.

British- would like to see vanilla units since they rely on the officer so much either recieve a increase in damage or buff the officers base Health so they do not get killed by flies.

Mandos need to be cheaper due to them being a 6 man tommy squad.
Tetrarch needs a buff for a doctrinal tank its terribad.

In general i like the balance Just Massed faust with blitz or a officer is kinda retarded as you can essentialy fight off every allied tank. Axis officer buffs grenade damage as well?.

[Shabtajus]

atg vs 88 - increase atg  vs 88s accuracy, cuz atm its a bit stupid to try counter 88s
creeping barage RCA - increse reload timer
storms - no need sprint when they are cloacked, after deckloaking they should not cloack at least 5 -8 secs
panther - after complains them being OP, u did triple nerf them 1. nerfed acc vs in is good, 2. increased pool is bad plus keep in mind u created m18 to counter panthers and now it became tripple nerfed
m18 - add modifier which works only vs panthers, atm m18 is mobile death for any tanks or lv, it almost disables any tanks axis have
rangers - added lmgs and super m18s... now u made them almost unbeatable for PE, damn those rangers blobs now rock too hard
stuh - increase fuel price, but they still cost less the HE rounds shermans since shermies does the same and they do have turrets
PE mortars - increase range, since PE suffers vs support spam they should have good indirect
LV caping - speedy is right move it to t3 . anyway who goes for t4 still will not have chance to get capping lvs
tiger - need some love too, panther as ai is nerfed, rangers trolling so axis inf need some help

[Ahnungsloser]

AB Bombing Run:
Double misses a Hummel in its yellow target box but destroys two Halftracks behind it, which where out of the box. Maybe it's possible to increase the number of bomb, but lower it's damage per one. (It's not as bad as the WP Strike, but the scatter values makes it to a gamble game. Compared to other Offmaps it's less reliable.

AB Overall:
I don't want to spend to many words on it but a lot of people would like to see a rework.

Anit-Spam Mechanism:
Not a real balance issue but tempt derail most games. Maybe it's possible to associate a unit with a standard unit count threshold and when this limit is exiced the pool value of this unit starts to increase. (Or a ingame aura which decreases stats?)

Dual LMG1919A6:
One are slighty noticeable but it seems that two on one squad are the critical number count for steamrolling infantry.

M18 Hellcat:
I like the new Hellcat, but I'm unsure if its the way to go... .

Flak 88:
It tempt to hit the ATG to good.

[terrapinsrock]

I see a lot of calls for the Stormies to loose the double shrecks, but I have to say that we should keep them (though a Munitions increase should be looked into), its very high risk high reward which demands ALOT of micro, and while it can derp Allied tanks on command, once discovered it pretty much becomes a vet pinata for Shermans/Croms/Rangers/ etc.

[tank130]

Thread cleaned.

Take your arguments somewhere else.