Tank hunters vs mortar smoke

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[nikomas]

Seems such small and narrow situation to complain about as TH. I mean all docs have their weak points.

Weak point of armor coy?
Weak point of Inf?
Weak point of Blitz?
Weak point of Terror?

I can go on, but all of them have solutions for just about anything.

[CrazyWR]

Weak point of armor coy?  88s, properly supported pak spam, storm shreks, falls shreks, teller mines, jagds, apcr marder spam...I can go on
Weak point of Inf? properly used vehicles, layered mg usage, incendiary hummels, flames...
Weak point of Blitz? snipers, jeeps, mark target, m18s, fireflies, cromwells, brits in general really...
Weak point of Terror? stickies, bars, layered mgs, light vehicles...

I can go on, but all of them have solutions for just about anything.

[Smokaz]

 

So not in the loop, lol

[Poppi]

Weak point of armor coy?
Weak point of Inf?
Weak point of Blitz?
Weak point of Terror?

I can go on, but all of them have solutions for just about anything.

you act like all those docs have a perfect counter for every unit in every example though.
this is just inf in smoke. How often do you see that? (i do think smoke is under used though due to micromanagement so smoke might be a problem if its used more)
have teammates help out or send in some inf and nades and indirect fire. Maybe the problem is the mortar teams. Take care of them. Pull back and mg teams? Flank with vehicles?

as crazy pointed out not every company is fit to take on another without some help with teammates

[AmPM]

Actually, most companies are fit to do so.

TH has a distinct lack of ability to deal with smoke.

They don't even have a decent soft counter to smoke...

[CrazyWR]

yes, yes they do.  Its called mortar HTs, and incendiary grenades.

[Tymathee]

Weak point of armor coy?
Weak point of Inf?
Weak point of Blitz?
Weak point of Terror?

I can go on, but all of them have solutions for just about anything.

Armor - Mines, any long ranged AT.
Infantry - everything and nothing.
Blitz - things that recon
Terror - teammates

[Smokaz]

How often do you see smoke?

I do fucking every game. Maybe at low level where poppi microes 1 unit and the rest sleep outside spawn, smoke isn't used because it actually requires some coordination. But smoke is extremely powerful vs a opponent who can't respond to it.

[CrazyWR]

ffs smokaz, just eliminate the fucking source of the smoke.  Mortars aren't exactly invincible

[AmPM]

Armor - Mines, any long ranged AT.
Infantry - everything and nothing.
Blitz - things that recon
Terror - teammates

Armor isn't countered by any of those....it has artillery support built in, and minesweepers and crabflails.

Infantry has no hard counter, it's good at everything including Armor use.

Blitz is only weak to recon if you spam stormies, it works fine without stormies too. It has no weakness.

Terror is great at all things, all at once.

[Tymathee]

Armor isn't countered by any of those....it has artillery support built in, and minesweepers and crabflails.

Infantry has no hard counter, it's good at everything including Armor use.

Blitz is only weak to recon if you spam stormies, it works fine without stormies too. It has no weakness.

Terror is great at all things, all at once.

ampm's troll sensor is broken.

[NightRain]

All of the weak points that were mentioned- there are things available to counter them. TH however has pretty much  QQ for Smoke. The mortar ht inc barrage indeed sounds useful but it can be dropped only so often.

[CrazyWR]

you only need to drop it on the enemy mortar once. Problem solved...

[TheWindCriesMary]

This thread is baffling to me.

[CrazyWR]

at least someone agrees with me

[TheWindCriesMary]

I just get increasingly bothered by the "my current favourite unit/doctrine can't do everything and that's a problem we need to fix" approach to balancing in this mod.

Broken things should be balanced. Slightly annoying things should not.

I wish these forums would stop being used (and everyone seems to do this) as people's personal lobbying platform for moving doctrine's closer to their preferences instead of being forced to move closer to their doctrine's.

[Smokaz]

You're a tard, Wind. Fighting inside smoke is now a base capability for everyone except Tank Hunters.
What gives you the impression that it's fair for them to be impotent vs it?
It's not slightly annoying, it's a weakness that opens them up to being spammed to death by mortar smoke.

[TheWindCriesMary]

What gives you the impression that it's fair for them to be impotent vs it?

Mostly the part about where that is a completely false statement gives me that impression.

 TH infantry in houses are the most capable infantry for fighting within smoke in the entire mod second only to flamers. Best of all they confer their bonuses on ALL infantry within a healthy range...including your teammates. This works for both AT and AI infantry. Then you have the stummel, the MHT (the best mortar in the game), magnetic AT nades (and normal ballistic nades) as well as flame nades. If you're having problem fighting as TH against smoke, then as with so many ill-conceived balance posts in EiR the problem is far more likely to be with you than an inherrent problem with the doctrine. In the absense of evidence or facts to support a claim, always go with the simpler explanation rather than the unlikely one.

So yes, when you try to pass off "TH is useless against smoke" to this mod's community as fact, you're going to get called out for being blatantly wrong.

Your argument is based on many things, but evidence and actual facts are not among them.

[Smokaz]

Everyone KNOWS that the buildings confer a great accuracy bonus if you pick ONE specific t2, so I guess tank hunter companies will have to play maps that allow them to use this to their advantage. Because in a map with few buildings or buildings in less important places, your argument turns to dogshit.

But it's funny that a mediocre player like yourself try to play a game knowledge card on me, because if you had looked at the math you'd know that even with vet 2 and buildings the accuracy bonus doesn't come close to mitigating the smoke. Even at medium range a vet 0 g43 for instance has 21% accuracy inside smoke while BEING buffed by your magic solution. So it's not even dogshit its horseshit.

It's a nice point that TH can use smoke themselves if they so want for their grenades, this is not the issue however, the issue is that other than the highly unreliable Stummel they have no means of hitting infantry in smoke to a normal degree.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Right now tank hunters has nothing to fight mortar smoke covered infantry.

the issue is that other than the highly unreliable Stummel they have no means of hitting infantry in smoke to a normal degree.

This is when you know you fail at arguing.

"I make a blanket statement to base my argument off of: TH has nothing to fight smoke covered infantry!"

"What about Stummels, nades and arguably one of the best mortars in the game?"

"Ok but aside from those!"


Balance pro at work.