Mainline Infantry Balance Thread

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[Tymathee]

I suppose the vickers is a bar then too. See how this logic is fail? And as hicks said, G43 ain't got shit on the bar im terms of supression AND DPS

bars suppression fire is longer, g43 is quicker. both rates were normalized.

since i'm home now, i'll put out my corsix.

BAR Suppression Fire - 400% suppression for 15 seconds
G43 Suppression Fire - 600% suppression for 10 seconds

Nuff said. both have their benefits and weaknesses.

Also, pzgrens already have a free g43, so with upgrade they have 3, and bar is 2, i wonder where the dps is there?

I dont know how to calculate it and with the new changes to make the g43 better, i dont know what the total dps is there.

[AmPM]

bars suppression fire is longer, g43 is quicker. both rates were normalized.

since i'm home now, i'll put out my corsix.

BAR Suppression Fire - 400% suppression for 15 seconds
G43 Suppression Fire - 600% suppression for 10 seconds

Nuff said. both have their benefits and weaknesses.

Also, pzgrens already have a free g43, so with upgrade they have 3, and bar is 2, i wonder where the dps is there?

I dont know how to calculate it and with the new changes to make the g43 better, i dont know what the total dps is there.

What is the RoF of both weapons and the suppression values of both weapons...

[Hicks58]

You also seem to be forgetting that BAR squads have an extra 4 men firing alongside the 2 BAR's.

They are also affected by suppression fire.

[jackmccrack]

I think we all know G43 supp-fire is inferior.

[smurfORnot]

Tym obviously doesn't...

[8thRifleRegiment]

also rifleman is 6 man sqaud with Garrands as well which have higher base supression then the PGKrap98

[NightRain]

You also seem to be forgetting that BAR squads have an extra 4 men firing alongside the 2 BAR's.

They are also affected by suppression fire.

On top of that, the suppression fire affects the pineapple nade as well.

[Smokaz]

bars suppression fire is longer, g43 is quicker. both rates were normalized.

since i'm home now, i'll put out my corsix.

BAR Suppression Fire - 400% suppression for 15 seconds
G43 Suppression Fire - 600% suppression for 10 seconds

Nuff said. both have their benefits and weaknesses.

Also, pzgrens already have a free g43, so with upgrade they have 3, and bar is 2, i wonder where the dps is there?

I dont know how to calculate it and with the new changes to make the g43 better, i dont know what the total dps is there.

Quoting the effects without the base values isn't very interesting and directly misleading in this example

As for benefits and weaknesses, g43s are mainly weak against everything else because no sensible player stays in a fight that takes 30 seconds to lose. People will take fire from g43s for a few seconds then fall back, not stay at range. If someone advances on the g43, you do it because you know you can beat it.

Consider also the exchange rate of 60 munis vs 35 manpower to have the same firepower as grens! So cheap for PE man, so cheap!

[Zamochit]

I don't think Tym is trying to say that a G43 is equal to a BAR but that they have similar roles.

Much in the same way the US 57mm and a Marder aren't the same yet serve similar roles, stand off AT.

So a BAR and G43 serve as a quick suppression tool, even if one is better than the other.

[Tymathee]

^ someone finally gets it.

[AmPM]

^ someone finally gets it.

So basically, what you are saying, is that Rifle Grease Guns and 4 Man KCH are directly comparable because they both have SMGs....

[Tymathee]

So basically, what you are saying, is that Rifle Grease Guns and 4 Man KCH are directly comparable because they both have SMGs....

Lmao

Comparable and same role is totally different.

[AmPM]

So a G43 squad is similar to an HMG42, and a Volks squad is similar to a Quad....

They have similar roles, AI...

They are different units, with different strengths. They are not similar at all except that they are infantry, that can suppress. One is a much better platform and can pu tout high DPS/

[Tymathee]

AmPm, you're the one looking like an idiot right now cuz you're totally taking words out of what I'm saying.

I'm saying ROLE.

and no, a g43 similar to mg42, cuz an mg42 isn't a purchasable upgrade on main line infantry nor do they share the same role, mobile AI with suppression.

However, a G43 and a BAR share the same role.
Mobile AI with a toggle ability that suppresses units.

Much like a pak, g-wagon, all are not similar but have the same role, long range anti tank, are the they same type of unit, NO!

[AmPM]

Tym, an HMG and BAR rifles can have the same role, AI and area control...just because one sets up and the other doesn't means nothing.

That's like saying that a 57mm and RR squad are similar because they share a role.

What it comes down to is this.

The PGren with G43 is a slightly better DPS than a Pgren squad, with a decent suppression ability.

The BAR Rifle squad is a much improved Rifle squad, with much higher AI ability and massive suppression.

[Tymathee]

lol you are the master of the bullshit.

[AmPM]

Go play PE Tym, I want to see your masteful use of PGrens.

Hell, I'd like to see you join a game against decent players with any faction.

Fact: BAR Rifles are much better than PGren G43 squad.

I don't play PE, I don't like PE, but I recognize that their infantry sucks. The only thing you care about Tym, is how can they make it easier for you to play Allies/Brits.

[Tymathee]

Go play PE Tym, I want to see your masteful use of PGrens.

Hell, I'd like to see you join a game against decent players with any faction.

Fact: BAR Rifles are much better than PGren G43 squad.

I don't play PE, I don't like PE, but I recognize that their infantry sucks. The only thing you care about Tym, is how can they make it easier for you to play Allies/Brits.

dude, you talk in circles, you talk out your ass thats the bullshit im talking about. You take one topic out of a paragraph and jump on that ignoring everything else.

You're a huge frustration and from now on I'm just going to ignore everything thing you say cuz you're so damn negative.

[AmPM]

I make direct responses to your nonsensical posts.

Key points of this thread.

Possibly adjust Brit infantry so that officers are less important to their ability to function.

Adjust PGren pop to 4 so that they can properly support their far more pop heavy support units.

Troll Tym whenever possible.

[RikiRude]

You guys waste so much time picking apart Tyms posts and going completely out of your way to try to make him seem like an idiot that anyone watching these threads from the outside can see how fucking stupid and childish you are. AmPm you are ridiculous and the number one contender when it comes to this.

How do you guys sit there and say that g43 and bars aren't similar when g43 is an upgrade on main line infantry that suppresses? By your logic the .30 cal and mg42 are not at all similar because the .30 cal doesn't suppress as fast as the mg42. And then to make comments that grease guns and kch are the same according to this logic. 

I don't even think Tym anywhere has said that g43s are as GOOD as BARs, he's simply said they are similar, yet here you guys are pulling all these stats out. It's incredibly silly to be honest. And you guys completely derailed the thread with your incessant nagging, grow up and just fucking ignore each other.

/rant

Anyways what I wanted to say is one benefit g43s have is against units in buildings, i guess that would be like penetration or something? Either way they usually tear up infantry in buildings pretty well compared to other weapons.

I forget did we try to give PG squads 3x g43s at one point? would that make enough of a difference for them to be more viable?

I think smokaz made a very good point in regards to advancing towards the g43, same can be done with the bar as well, you just don't have as much leeway.