Dem Maps

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[Hicks58]

Time for another suggestion from Hicks methinks.

So tbh, as it stands EiRR is an environment where we play the same 2-3 maps for 2v2's and 3v3's. It's that, or somebody picks a map that will favour their company to a large degree (PIAT users grabbing urban environments, 88 users grabbing as much open terrain as possible, etc).

So, how can we get around both of those problems at once?

Set the map to be pre-determined before a game launches. As soon as everybody readies up (Not RTL, just ready up - This is so people have time to see it) then the map is randomly chosen from the currently existing maps in EiRR for that size of game. When I say randomly, I mean from ALL of the currently implemented maps. If the map is not chosen in the game, then all participants will get 5% exp gain for their units and warmap progression instead of the standard 100%.

Why should this be done?

Bad maps will be filtered out, and *Fast*. Nobody wants to be forced to play a legitimately poor map and as such after one or two games being forced to play it they'll be up in arms and get it removed from the map list with shocking efficiency.

Next, map specific companies will become a total gamble and generally a bad idea. Put together an 88 spam company and end up with Villers-Bocage? Tough. People will have to adapt with their companies and make them combat ready for any environment - We may not necessarily see fully "Balanced" companies all of a sudden, but people will have to put much more consideration into their spam if it relies on anything on the map.

Finally, we'll have some variety. No more playing the same 3-4 maps every single time and no arguing over who chooses the map. Keeps things fresh and cuts the bickering.

Some considerations:

People who start a room, have everybody ready up and don't like the map so they call for a re-host? Well, simple answer to that: Avoid them. You now know that they have something up their sleeve and your ass will no longer be running totally blind into it.

People who deliberately choose a map other than the designated map once ingame? Cue in the moderators. Screenshot the evidence and let the good folks in the dev team deal with the ass hats.

There may be a bit more to outline to it, but I think I've got a pretty strong basis for it. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[hans]

although ur idea is good, i would choose an easier way:

the problem with the maps is right now, that we normally choose the maps we feel comfortable with. Just take out every week the 5 most played maps and try the others out. That way we are forced to try different maps. And out of these maps we choose the best. Take them out and go ahead. And after 3 or 4 of these outtakes we can add the popular maps back step by step?

[Tymathee]

^

[skaffa]

although ur idea is good, i would choose an easier way:

the problem with the maps is right now, that we normally choose the maps we feel comfortable with. Just take out every week the 5 most played maps and try the others out. That way we are forced to try different maps. And out of these maps we choose the best. Take them out and go ahead. And after 3 or 4 of these outtakes we can add the popular maps back step by step?

Ye lets get rid of all the nice maps so we are forced to play the shitty ones.

I suggest to get rid of the shitty ones and add in more good ones.
Cant decide whats a good or bad map? Ill decide, np.

[terrapinsrock]

Ye lets get rid of all the nice maps so we are forced to play the shitty ones.

I suggest to get rid of the shitty ones and add in more good ones.
Cant decide whats a good or bad map? Ill decide, np.

^

[Dnicee]

I think i can guess who made all those "good" maps...

[skaffa]

I think i can guess who made all those "good" maps...

lol

This again?

niggapls

[nikomas]

*cough*

[CrazyWR]

Either of the first two ideas works for me.

[GORKHALI]

Remove Gorks map, they r bad map nobody wants to play it anywy

[iwik]

Maps need to be well designed. Allow for different play styles and not cramp up. In real life we have to attack fortifications, go through swamps, fight in shitty locations but this is a game and a not a military simulation.

My current peeve is actually people taking small maps and taking artillery and KTs. I played someone on Bergen once who did that. Will never ever play Bergen again.

[RikiRude]

what should happen is when you RFS 3 map choices come up, and if a map wins by popular vote, bam you play it, if there's a tie, on two maps, one of the two is chosen at random.

yes it sucks to play a shitty map from time to time, but it's better than only having two people play a shitty map and try to push to get rid of it while everyone else is all "lol haven't played it yet"

[nikomas]

See, there are a few annoyances I have with the "Bad maps", and it's not really because the maps are always bad in themselves, it's just that they dont allow for the optimal way people likes to play. City maps with building are a good example, two of the major complaints I hear about them are...

"Buildings turn infantry combat into a slog"
"Towns sucks for tanks/vehicles"

And I think both are pretty dumb, see, problem 1 is solved by something rather simple that everyone has access to, and to some extent mortars, but mainly flamethrowers. It's not something you HAVE to use, most people don't, I don't really either, but stick a few of them in your coy and suddenly that town ain't that dangerous anymore.

For the sucks for vehicles? Yeah, it DOES suck for vehicles doesn't it? Live with it, the enemy will have equal trouble navigating the town. And before you bitch and moan about inf based coys having and advantage when you rely on armor to negate them? Bitchplease, some coys always have the advantage on some maps, not to mention certain flamethrower coys do hardcounter the rangers, if you really fear em use those. And as said earlier, the random map rotation WILL cut into spam as well, want to LV spam? Well, you'll be taking a risk you'll be doing LV spam on St.Winn, good luck wit that bro.

And if you are playing armored coy and now terror volks are all up in your grill? I suppose you could, you know, actually take the 30. MG for once and just, you know, supress em? Pretty easy targets in a town with all them narrow approaches.

End of the day, random map selection with a greater variety of maps will serve balanced adaptive companies well and I disagree with the notion that every company has to be able to do equally well on a map for it to be balanced, randomness can fuck anyone over and as long as there is a variety in the maps I think it will be fine. I'm seriously sick of watching people use very map dependent builds and then bitch because the lone one or two maps they work well on aren't picked.

Also, if the warmap stuff is to be taken seriously I do believe people should be forced to fight under less than ideal conditions, and for the record? Most games with ranked automatch do lock you out of map choices for a reason.

[aeroblade56]

cant be bothered to read niko's post smaller plz

[nikomas]

cant be bothered to read niko's post smaller plz

Fine, not all crappy maps suck... General player adaptability and the thought that "My company should work on ALL maps" sucks.

[aeroblade56]

Define a crappy map? and compare to a good map.

[nikomas]

See, I can't answer that as I can have fun with almost any map in the game. I'm normally fine with pretty much any map but most refuse to play anything other than the standard 3 or 4 maps saying anything else is shitty. My example was the urban maps people refuse to play becasue you need to play them a bit differently.

[aeroblade56]

well. i refuse to play urban maps because its a arty clusterfuck usually with no where to hide and just dodging mortar shells for the duration. Carentan is a fine example.

[Uglysori]

I dunno some maps are just horrendous for PE but are fine for others.  Maps with multiple changes of elevation, or grooves which have a tendency to make PE vehicles do split second 180s moving forward, deceleration traps, or poor pathfinding in general.  I am looking at maps like Point Du Hoc, Radar Station, Goodwood (the open fields have some sort of grooves that fuck with HTs and the other half is wooded with elevation changes).  Probably fine for other factions but stupid for PE. Does that make it a bad map? I dunno.

The argument for how every faction can deal with urban environments can be a poor one again for PE.  Not every PE player is SE or even chooses assault flammens as an unlock and in turn not every Brit player has access to flames tanks or flammers also.  On the other hand PE does have access to inc grenades.  PE AT is also more vulnerable to street fighting compared to other factions given that it is generally turretless, on a less hardy platform, can be hit more easily by all forms of AT compared to an ATG -- Hard to hit from it's frontal arc, more difficult to be potshotted around the corner on a vulnerable flank as compared to a 50mm, Marder.  They also lack some of the support weapons that would be useful in urban environments.  

Is it really the PE player's fault that he built his company in a fairly normal fashion and could be boned by a randomized map selection?

Personally, I don't want to sound bitchy about this since I personally feel that I rarely feel the need to veto maps unless playing with new players who could better learn on a more balanced map.  Hell, as ppl may have noticed my company layout for SE rarely changes game to game, map to map anyway.  However I can see how this would be a bother to PE players for a faction already currently maligned by the community.

 

[nikomas]

You forgot the incendiary mortar, and when it comes to urban maps handheld AT like tankbuster squads or ever at grenades become more valuable, there are options, however those are options most players don't use.