Have Consoles Dumbed Down Gaming?

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[Tymathee]

Read an interesting discussion on the Bioware boards about holstering and how some fans wanted to have it in ME3 but Bioware didn't put it in cuz of memory issues, yet it was in ME1 and computers were "smaller" then.

So that got me thinking, it's not cuz of memory for the game but memory for the consoles, and it made me think to other games that were "dumbed down" because they were cross platform and there are things you can do on the PC that you can't do on consoles cuz of memory issues.

Mass Effect is a great example, the exploration, combat and fighting areas were vastly different and IMO better but ME2 and ME3 both came to the console thus were more steamlined for action and the "less is more" philosophy.

I really think if ME stayed PC exclusive, ME2 and ME3 would be banner games that other companies look to and say "i want to do that" but now they can look at it and say "oh, its been done"

[PonySlaystation]

of course consoles are responsible for dumbed down gameplay and system requirements and because most bigger games are Xbox ports that creates a whole array of other problems for PC and Playstation users.

[Spartan_Marine88]

I remember they took massive chunks out of lost planet 2 so that they could make it fully functional on XBOX and some of the best parts were lost

[Sachaztan]

Pretty much.

Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[Tymathee]

Pretty much.

Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

im just trying to create a discussion dude.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

The title is unintentionally humorous.

[acker]

Two decades ago, gaming was probably nine nerds on the planet and one normal person. Now gaming is thirty nerds on the planet and five hundred normal people.

In terms of market proportion, casual games probably increased.

On the other hand, consoles certainly helped make gaming popular for a large gamut of people. Which probably caused the absolute number and quality of complex games to increase due to the increased nerd audience.


I'm obviously oversimplifying and stereotyping here.

[RikiRude]

Just look at the battlefield series.

that's why no matter what console gamers think, they simply are not hardcore gamers. they are merely gaming enthuisiests.

mouse and keyboard will ALWAYS be superior to a controller in FPS and RTS, though I do prefer the feel of a controller for most 3rd person games.

computer games also have these little things called MODS for their games.

Simply put PC gamers have the possibility of complete control of their hobby, where a console gamer has jack squat pretty much. also tell me about the advances being made in console gaming? there aren't any it's always on the computer that it happens.

[Tymathee]

agreed. I'll only get consoles for sports games and cuz i dont always want to sit in front of my computer.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Just look at the battlefield series.

Im so tired of the people who didn't like Battlefield 2 telling me that Battlefield 3 was better...

[AmPM]

I disagree that consoles result in dumbed down games. I beleive the root cause is a change in audience.

10 years ago we were playing games like EQ1 and UO. Quake and CS were the online shooters. Those titles required high skill levels to play at the higher level. Now we have much more forgiving titles like WoW, GW2, CoD and BF series. What changed?

The attitude of the current generation of gamers is that they shouldnt have to be good, try hard, and suffer loss for their failures. Its and attitude that is prevalent in society in general now because of how we teach our children.  "Dont worry if you guys lose, you will still get trophies", this mentality is bullshit and is a large reason why the new generation of gamers cannot handle something actually "hardcore". Look at the number of people that have completed a Classic Ironman XCom game. Its not hard at all, but the threat of loss keeps a lot of people away.

End rant.

[Spartan_Marine88]

I disagree that consoles result in dumbed down games. I beleive the root cause is a change in audience.

10 years ago we were playing games like EQ1 and UO. Quake and CS were the online shooters. Those titles required high skill levels to play at the higher level. Now we have much more forgiving titles like WoW, GW2, CoD and BF series. What changed?

The attitude of the current generation of gamers is that they shouldnt have to be good, try hard, and suffer loss for their failures. Its and attitude that is prevalent in society in general now because of how we teach our children.  "Dont worry if you guys lose, you will still get trophies", this mentality is bullshit and is a large reason why the new generation of gamers cannot handle something actually "hardcore". Look at the number of people that have completed a Classic Ironman XCom game. Its not hard at all, but the threat of loss keeps a lot of people away.

End rant.

Actually you bringing up Xcom is a good example of how its consoles have affected the market as the new one is a shiny and more action oriented and much shallower (and easier) sequel of X-com. Its has become the COD of the tactical strategy universe.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I disagree that consoles result in dumbed down games. I beleive the root cause is a change in audience.

10 years ago we were playing games like EQ1 and UO. Quake and CS were the online shooters. Those titles required high skill levels to play at the higher level. Now we have much more forgiving titles like WoW, GW2, CoD and BF series. What changed?

The attitude of the current generation of gamers is that they shouldnt have to be good, try hard, and suffer loss for their failures. Its and attitude that is prevalent in society in general now because of how we teach our children.  "Dont worry if you guys lose, you will still get trophies", this mentality is bullshit and is a large reason why the new generation of gamers cannot handle something actually "hardcore". Look at the number of people that have completed a Classic Ironman XCom game. Its not hard at all, but the threat of loss keeps a lot of people away.

End rant.

In my opinion, shifting the focus over to enjoyability instead of "skill" (if developing twitch reflexes, for the most part, can be considered skill) is a definite benefit. Leisure time is for leisure. I don't see why I'd want to stress myself out and work hard over an ultimately unimportant activity for whatever meagre enjoyment it provides.

[AmPM]

In my opinion, shifting the focus over to enjoyability instead of "skill" (if developing twitch reflexes, for the most part, can be considered skill) is a definite benefit. Leisure time is for leisure. I don't see why I'd want to stress myself out and work hard over an ultimately unimportant activity for whatever meagre enjoyment it provides.

Which is what casual games are for.

None of those games required "twitch" to be good. You can be perfectly good at any of those by out thinking an opponent.

It's like EIR, there are players that complain it's too hard, or too many stacks, or whatever. Instead of playing and attempting to get better, they just hide from anyone they think might beat them.

I personally find my enjoyment of things is directly proportional to the amount of challenge it presents me. This is why I rarely if ever play single player games, because and AI is not worth playing against in most cases. Just because YOU prefer to brainlessly succeed at whatever is in front of you doesn't mean others are. There is no feeling of "wow, I managed to actually win" if the game is so simple any random person can play and succeed without needing to think, increase skill throughout the game, or become better in general.

I do understand that there are people who do not want to put forth any effort, and that they do not want to risk feeling bad for losing. For those of you like this, I point you towards Zynga games.

[PonySlaystation]

In my opinion, shifting the focus over to enjoyability instead of "skill" (if developing twitch reflexes, for the most part, can be considered skill) is a definite benefit. Leisure time is for leisure. I don't see why I'd want to stress myself out and work hard over an ultimately unimportant activity for whatever meagre enjoyment it provides.

Then why play EIR? where the enjoyment lies in the challenge, tense battles and where the ability to destroy the enemy's army also comes with the risk of losing your own. Losing may not put you in a big disadvantage but the game still relies heavily on skill and teamwork hence why the mod can be considered hardcore.

I'm not saying theme park MMOs can't be fun but it's much more interesting if there is a high risk and reward. You lose, you'll lose your gear and xp, you win, you get his gear and xp. It's interesting because it means that the outcome of a battle really counts. So PVP, Teamwork and the want to get improve becomes a large part of the game. PVE and PVP are also closely interlocked because getting better gear in PVE helps you in PVP and the other way around.

Theme park MMOs is basically like playing poker with no bets and simplified gameplay to make everything about chance and losers always get a cookie. That  may be fun if you are ten years old. But after that point I think you'll realize that time is more well spent if you have the opportunity to win and progress in the game instead of being identical to millions of other players where the only factor that determines win and loss is time spent.

[Sachaztan]

I'd say that even if the general audience hasn't been "dumbed down" the games STILL would dumbed down by consoles. When you make a game you want it to sell as much as possible and when a very large portion of the market is consoles the companies will want to sell it on as many different types of consoles as possible. Due to the developmental cycle of consoles and the mere fact that they don't have a mouse+keyboard means certain aspects of the game HAS to be dumbed down.

It's like a law of nature.

Mind you this isn't all bad in my opinion, just in most cases. One case that I think it wasn't bad is x-com where the streamlining changes made the game better in my opinion. (awaits the inevitable flak from the "hardcore" gamers that played the first one)

[RikiRude]

You guys remember when console games WERE near impossible. I never beat the TMNT for ninetendo, and I played it on an emulator a few years ago and STILL couldn't beat it.

But I agree with AmPm on this actually. Any game that comes out now has to be able to be played from ages 6 to adult. So one thing you have is difficulty settings, but that isn't enough. That probably lead to people saying eff the hardcore mode, they are just fine with a normal setting and it went from there.

To be honest sometimes I play through on lower settings. With the God of War series for PS2 for example I played on normal, simply because I didn't have the time to sit there and play a game on hard (was working 60 hour weeks at the time). I know for a fact I could of beaten it on hard, and if I were in say, high school, I would of put it on the hardest setting and had a blast. But I just wanted to play the game for the story.

[Tymathee]

Well, I'm not talking so much the ease of games but the depth, I used my example of Me1 to Me2 as an example because Me1 was a much more expansive game, more areas to explore, more to do, ME2 comes, and all of that is gone.

same thing with Dragon Age 1 to Dragon Age 2, some Command and Conquer games, etc.

[Poppi]

recent mega release disaster game for me is the new MOH.

The one in 2010 was obviously going the COH route. But not to bad. It had its own thing going on.
But this one..... just plain copied it.
Millions of dollars, months of work, training with SEALs, and they released some of the biggest BS i ever played. Straight up no innovation. Yet selling like hotcakes.

And plenty plenty plenty plenty of PC exclusives that play like they are designed for mindless retarded 8 year old games. Yet i hear PC elitist still bitch about consoles dumbing down games, when PC support dumbed down games at about 20xs the rate.

[nikomas]

And plenty plenty plenty plenty of PC exclusives that play like they are designed for mindless retarded 8 year old games. Yet i hear PC elitist still bitch about consoles dumbing down games, when PC support dumbed down games at about 20xs the rate.

Go ahead, I'd like some examples of that 20x rate