Goliath

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[TheWindCriesMary]

Also I'd like to comment that game doesn't show shabs main goliath spam company, i am pretty sure that was a company he made on the spot to try something a bit new.

I'm sorry Riki, but Shab's goliath company is not a threat to anyone in a decently balanced game.

Goliaths are a huge lesson in two thins: the psychological hysteria of some people in this mod when they encounter something that disrupts the nice clean routine of their favoured style of gameplay, and the horrible cost-vs-impact analysis that some players use when using strategies like Goliaths. The former affects allies going against something like goliath spam, and the other the people who use it.

If someone wants to spend all those munitions to kill 3-5 riflemen (40 mp each), i'm more than happy with that trade. If you kill only that much with a goliath, shame on you for your target priorities.

[tank130]

this thread is a perfect example of why the dev team ignores most of the community balance threads........

[TheIcelandicManiac]

I have to lol at your comment ice. dont retreat rifles, ok thats easy enough, end up with 2-3 guys left? not really, with terror goliaths you are lucky if you are left with just just 1-2 guys, which are useless outside of capping.

stopping your tank to shoot goliath? this is a pretty huge risk imo, so if you miss that goliath you just shrug your shoulders as your tank takes 70% damage from it?

though the atgs pointing on the roads is a good tactic. your other two claims, not so much.

Also I'd like to comment that game doesn't show shabs main goliath spam company, i am pretty sure that was a company he made on the spot to try something a bit new.

You are a bloddy idiot blowing things out of proportion.

70%?
At most its going to do 20-30% and even then if you are going to back up like an idiot with your terrible micro you are just going to get your sherman stuck on a twig and in the end having the Gol blow up the sherman anyways because you failed to think ahead and not retreateing your troops is effective of a strat because even 7 rifles against 5 volks is better than 5 rifles agains 5 volks.

Also, Have you also ever thought about not blobbing like an idiot?

[Ahnungsloser]

You are a bloddy idiot blowing things out of proportion.
70%?

There not a single vehicle which has more then 70% health left when it gets hit by a goliath in it's low-mid range area of effect.
A Urban Survival Kit Pershing or a Churchill with buffs will slighty breach the 70% mark. (Or with veterancy)

[Mysthalin]

Yes, the reason I'm dismantling your terribly illogical argument must be "just because I like snipers". Otherwise I'd be completely fine with horribly poor, completely non-sensical arguments in support of altering the mod.

Ok, which part of my argument is illogical?

The fact tanks (baring the KT) have a fire-aim time, or the fact that snipers re-cloak a lot quicker than a tank can reload?

Your argument rests on an idealistic "since when is simple in-game AI not being a pain to the player for no discernible reason been an incentive for us to change anything?". Since this is a ridiculously shitty ideal to uphold, and I'm certain you're much too smart to suggest we should uphold nuisances for the good of a shitty ideal, my conclusion is that you're arguing because you don't want snipers to get even a minuscule chance of being killed due to a change that would improve play-ability.

By all that is holy to a shitty liberal arts student, will you finally accept that the reasoning found in the writings of retarded absolutist philosophers is not applicable anywhere beyond 2nd year PPE?

[PonySlaystation]

If someone wants to spend all those munitions to kill 3-5 riflemen (40 mp each), i'm more than happy with that trade. If you kill only that much with a goliath, shame on you for your target priorities.

200 MP and 80 MU is more than enough for a Goliath to make up for it's cost.

not retreateing your troops is effective of a strat

Why would the Goliath only kill a few men when it can kill the entire squad??

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Because the turn rate of the goliath is terrible, all you need to do to drag a few guys out of the splash is to run 90° in any direction from where the goliath is coming from and wait for it to blow up.
on the other hand people have the habit of blowing them up before the ideal time comes to pass or after and leave a few injured but alive troops to fight on.
also you can if you are in a good enough situation block the goliath with one squad of for example vanilla rifles so the other squad can run away.

[PonySlaystation]

The turn rate is only slow when it's standing still.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well the turn rate is the same, the only diffrence is the speed its going allready and if the speed of the goliath is fast enough its going to miss the squad or tank its going after unless it stops to recalculate the pathing.

[PonySlaystation]

The Goliath can run around in a circle just like any tank.

[RikiRude]

Oh man I totally meant 40% not 70% btw lol. But either way, you are right it is closer to 25% depending on the tank.

[Spartan_Marine88]

this thread is a perfect example of why the dev team ignores most of the community balance threads........

they never will understand tank, not ever.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Oh man I totally meant 40% not 70% btw lol. But either way, you are right it is closer to 25% depending on the tank.

Yea you are true with the 40% thing on some tanks but with those tanks like the cromm or m10 but with them you can with ease out run em.

[Hicks58]

As much fun as it is to watch people throw around inaccurate percentages...

The Goliath deals 375 damage. Shermans have 636 health, M10's 400, Hellcats 500 and Greyhounds 300.

That 375 damage is dealt in an area of 4 units (Short range) whilst medium range goes up to 6 units doing 0.8 damage (Still a respectable 300 damage).

So yeah, LV's are outright destroyed and medium tanks are left feeling the burn when 60%+ of their health disappears.

The only Allied tanks which do not suffer critical damage from a short range Goliath hit would be Churchill variants and the Pershing - But both of these still take significant damage (Pershing 990 health, Churchill MK VI 700, Churchill Croc 900).

As for the out-running part, Goliaths have a max speed of 5.5, but have an accel of 8 and decel of 12. Unless you happen to already be mobile, chances are the Goliath will get you unless you destroy it.

[nikomas]

Was going to write what above post said, but then hicks beat me to it.

Anyway, two goliaths can kill pretty much anything but a heavy if you blow them up in their close range, barring usk/vet

[Ahnungsloser]

As much fun as it is to watch people throw around inaccurate percentages...

The Goliath deals 375 damage. Shermans have 636 health, M10's 400, Hellcats 500 and Greyhounds 300.

That 375 damage is dealt in an area of 4 units (Short range) whilst medium range goes up to 6 units doing 0.8 damage (Still a respectable 300 damage).

So yeah, LV's are outright destroyed and medium tanks are left feeling the burn when 60%+ of their health disappears.

The only Allied tanks which do not suffer critical damage from a short range Goliath hit would be Churchill variants and the Pershing - But both of these still take significant damage (Pershing 990 health, Churchill MK VI 700, Churchill Croc 900).

As for the out-running part, Goliaths have a max speed of 5.5, but have an accel of 8 and decel of 12. Unless you happen to already be mobile, chances are the Goliath will get you unless you destroy it.

Finally. I was waiting for your post and I appreciate it. A Pershing getting hit from a Goliath in midrange ((990-300)/990) which is less then 70% health left. The most underestimate the damage output of a goliath.

[3rdCondor]

It needs a pool increase.

[RikiRude]

As much fun as it is to watch people throw around inaccurate percentages...

The Goliath deals 375 damage. Shermans have 636 health, M10's 400, Hellcats 500 and Greyhounds 300.

That 375 damage is dealt in an area of 4 units (Short range) whilst medium range goes up to 6 units doing 0.8 damage (Still a respectable 300 damage).

So yeah, LV's are outright destroyed and medium tanks are left feeling the burn when 60%+ of their health disappears.

The only Allied tanks which do not suffer critical damage from a short range Goliath hit would be Churchill variants and the Pershing - But both of these still take significant damage (Pershing 990 health, Churchill MK VI 700, Churchill Croc 900).

As for the out-running part, Goliaths have a max speed of 5.5, but have an accel of 8 and decel of 12. Unless you happen to already be mobile, chances are the Goliath will get you unless you destroy it.

keep in mind hicks the people spamming goliaths are using terror goliaths which add +10% damage to the goliath.

[Shabtajus]

why dont u guys go and spam goliaths? just go and play. than comeback and post how "OP" its ffs. Some games in a row few guys tryed spamm them playing vs me and i bet they got so disapointed tbh. and lately guys bringing some good counters vs goli spam so that means they adapt for example colosus he disabled ma coy few times by bringing right counters. what i am trying to say if u cant adapt to a game style its ur own personal problem. still remember when skaffa was using storms + p4s or mysth bofors + mk churchills but hey i did not came to forums with begings nerf this nerf that cuz i cant win.
after all L2P argument is the best answer to complains

[Hicks58]

You're right.

There ARE counters to Goliaths. However, with every spam build that is made, an underlying issue with a unit is brought to light. Sometimes it's a glaring issue, sometimes it's a subtle issue.

With the Goliath, it's just the fact that you can have so many of them and still an effective company in field at the same time, as well as sorting out the priorities on it. No changes to how the unit is used or what the unit is capable needs to be done, it just needs in my opinion, a bit of a pop increase so you can't throw hordes of the buggers out in field whilst having a load of support weapons too.