Gay Marriage

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[Hicks58]

This discussion has been illuminating. Sach, hicks, Tig doesn't use condoms, it's against the church's beliefs. Your best bet is pull out. But overall I suggest extreme abstanince from her. You don't know how much "body of Christ" she's had.

Duly noted.

[Unkn0wn]

Do you support abortion? - No, unless the mother and child will certainly die during child birth. If you get pregnant but don't want the baby you give it up for adoption.

Do you believe women are equal to men? - Yes, in the bible it says everyone is equal.

Do you believe couples should be allowed to use condoms or any other form of contraception? - No

Do you support gay marriage and gay rights in general? - Yes, in the bible it says everyone is equal.

It does not matter that I disagree when it comes to human rights, my conscience tells me that it is wrong for anyone to be treated unequally, and that belief is allowed within the Catholic Church (as I already explained).

I'm not Roman Catholic because it sounds cool, I am Roman Catholic because it suits me better than any other religion. I only disagree with things to do with Human rights, that doesn't mean I'm not Roman Catholic.

If you believe the words of the bible over that of the pope you should have probably become a protestant...
As a Roman Catholic it doesn't matter what the bible says, it's what the pope and the clergy say that counts.

Also, what if you are pregnant after rape? You believe women should be forced to carry the child of a rapist for 9 months? I doubt you will find many other women who agree.

I'm still a virgin in every way. I'm waiting for marriage.

You must be trolling.

[CrazyWR]

+117

I'm not a whore!!!

I'm still a virgin in every way. I'm waiting for marriage.

for the record, having sex before marriage doesn't make you a whore.





Getting paid for it does.

[Hicks58]

Would YOU buy a car without test driving it first?

[TheWindCriesMary]

Do you believe women are equal to men? - Yes, in the bible it says everyone is equal.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.

Read your bible:

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

Do you support gay marriage and gay rights in general? - Yes, in the bible it says everyone is equal.
 

Absolutely wrong.

Leviticus:
""You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."" 18:22
 
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." 20:13

 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Corinthians 6:9-10



Read your bible once in a while. Especially if you call yourself a Roman Catholic.

[Mysthalin]

Tig, why don't you accept the fact that you are simply a progressive New Testament Christian that happens to like attending Mass?


Also, wait 2 years - if you're hot at the time, and I'm still in the UK - give me two hours and we'll figure out whether keeping your virginity was ever a good idea.

[terrapinsrock]

Would YOU buy a car without test driving it first?

This ^^

[NightRain]

[Sachaztan]

I get it, you want to be catholic for the auxiliary stuff, the peripherals. Like the community, at least some of your friends and one of your parents are catholic. You want to be catholic for the good stuff, like mass and drinking wine and the fuzzy feeling that an omnipotent being is watching over you.

It does not however make it any less ridiculous, one might even say hypocritical. It's like calling yourself communist just because you're a member of the local communist party even though you believe that a capitalist economy is the best. Sure they might be your friends and the rallies are fun, you might even agree with 90% of what they say (inequality is shit! power to the people! kill the nazis!). But if you don't believe in the core principles then that label is meaningless, you aren't actually a communist. Being ignorant of it doesn't make you any more communist.

Now unless you are prepared to change your beliefs to be compatible with catholic dogma then the only non-hypocritical path left to you is leaving your catholic church and joining another religion that actually is compatible with your beliefs.

There's probably many reasons why this isn't desirable for you which is totally understandable. Then you would have to either continue deluding yourself or live with the hard truth that your life is a lie. One of these options is easier than the other.

[TheWindCriesMary]

@Wind: Jesus! "Bla bla, everyone equal!"

You said that, in the bible, it says that everyone (specifically man and women) are equal.

You were absolutely incorrect. In fact as demonstrated above, it consistently and unequivocally makes the exact opposite claim to you.

 In fact I don't think, based on what I've seen here, that you've really read the bible much at all. That probably explains why you still call yourself a Roman Catholic (because from the sounds of it you should be pretty horrified by most of what it says).


We know what the Bible says because we have direct quotes with citations from it demonstrating that it unequivocally states women are inferior to men (which is utter bullshit) and that homosexuality is a grevious sin worthy of the utmost condemnation and, ultimately, penalty of death (also utter bullshit).


Your opinions are diametrically opposed to those of most of the bible's.  They are certainly NOT the product of the bible.

And that is a very good thing.

To use a phrase you employed earlier... lawyered.

[Sachaztan]

It just so happens that disagreeing with that particular aspect of Catholicism makes you a heretic.

Since I consider organized religion to be bullshit I don't think that being a heretic is necessarily a bad thing, but what do you think about being heretic?

[Heartmann]

Anyway lets lay off alpha, if there are more wants and need For discussion use pm this is starting too look like which hunt tbh.

^^ anyway to sum up this thread gays are great and fun and leave them alone even if you don't like it up the bum!:-)

[nikomas]

A book of morals...

Brb, off to put people to death for various insane reasons!

[TheWindCriesMary]

It all depends what part of the bible you pay attention to, and as I'm Roman Catholic I don't care much for the old testament stuff.

You do realize Corinthians and Ephesians is not old testament... right? It's New Testament.

Just one more example from the New Testament:

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head
of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church
submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." Ephesians 5:22-24

Also you didn't read your excerpt from Romans properly (or you completely forgot about context). It says absolutely nothing about woman's status under biblical law compared to men. It simply states that God does not show favouritism in how those who break his laws will be judged in his eyes.

9"There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

Again, lawyered. Read your damn bible for imaginary god's sake.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Yes i do know, i was just emphasizing a separate point.

Still not lawyered. You can brush everything else aside, but you can not brush aside Galatians. So i am right in saying the bible said so so long as i refer to Galatians.

No. You. Are. Not.

Have you even read the Galatians? Do you even realize it does not support your completely nonsense argument whatsoever?

Here's the context of it, which you completely missed:

""So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

This does  ABSOLUTELY nothing to contradict the other many bilbical verses which explicitly state that the man is a woman's master in Catholic doctrine. It doesn't even touch on the same topic whatsoever. Are you drunk? Did you actually think this would fly???

It simply explains that all humans are subjects of God regardless of their ethnicity, gender or currenty economic status or even regardless of whether they aknowledge it or not. It says absolutely nothing about gender equality in society as decreed by the Bible in its other sections. It simply says "it doesn't matter who you are, you are a child of god". It does not say "masters have no power over slaves" or that "men are not the heads of their respective households" or that "wives should not be submissive to their husbands" which is explicitly what other sections of the bible say the opposite of with no uncertainty.

Really, really bad attempt at an example to support your argument (for which you have overwhelming evidence against within the bible).

You have been lawyered on every point. You've got almost a dozen EXPLICIT examples of the Bible unequivocally stating that women are inferior to men.

You raised two potential quotes as counter examples. The first was struck down (and even you admitted it got thrown aside).

Now you took refuge in Galatians despite the fact that it clearly does not support your argument at all. You should have read it first.


Lawyered. Learn your bible.

[Sachaztan]

So I dug deeper, and it turns out that you are right for the wrong reasons.

If you disagree with ANYTHING that is considered de fide (like ex cathedra statements) then you are by definition a heretic. This is something that you should really know and no matter what your conscience tells you doesn't stop you from being a heretic. It. does. not. matter!

However, the anti-gay sentiments of the roman catholic church are not de fide but sententia certa and there has never been any ex cathedra anti-gay statements.

So while you REALLY ought to think gay marriage should be illegal you can disagree without becoming a heretic.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Wind, to me all being the same to Jesus or God means we are all equal.

READ THE QUOTES. Neither of them say that people are equal.  You are literally not reading the words.

Romans says they will be judged the same if they break the law.

Galatians says they are all children of god. Not that all children are equal.

All your quotes do not refer to how God views us, they are the views of imperfect Humans, and as such they say things to benefit themselves.

Do you realize the absolute bullshit argument you're making here?

Oh those 10+ quotes are just human views. Despite the fact that it is a basic tenet of Catholicism that the bible is the word of god... despite the fact that galatians was actually written by Paul in a letter to a group of people.

But no, because Alpha wants it to be true those other 2 quotes (romans + Galatians) are god's views.

As such Galatians and Romans completely contradicts the rest of the bible as they are what God and Jesus would see us as, and that takes president over what people see us as.

Galatians is a letter from Paul where he describes how he thinks god sees people. It is not this imaginary god guy telling people how he sees gender equality.

On the other hand, you have "supposedly" the DIRECT word of god in Genesis (and this is a belief that RC's have)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

I would say lawyered, but neither of us are lawyered. You believe that Human views are more important while i think how God see's us is more important.

I am without words.

When you see the 10+ quotes that directly contradict your lack of understanding of the bible, it's "oh well men just sometimes make up stuff to suit themselves" and then you have two quotes that don't really support what you're arguing, and don't contradict those 10+ quotes at all, AND which were also written by men who had a specific agenda when they made those words up but suddenly in THESE cases it's now "magically how god and jesus actually" think.

The bible fundamentally disagrees with you. You are actively trying to change what it says so you can reconcile your own very rational beliefs (that men and women are equal) with the batshit insane misogony and bigotry of the stupid bible.

It is your own worst enemy in this argument. You'd be way better off just saying "The bible is bullshit" I follow the spirit of christianity rather than the letter of roman catholicism.

Trying to do both is a disaster.

[PonySlaystation]

Why would follow the old testament literally when modern Christianity is based around the new testament? The old testament has a lot of outdated rules that are no longer relevant today like how a woman's arm is to be amputated if she kicks a man in the balls. Would you support these kinds of laws just because they're in the old testament?

[NightRain]

Why would follow the old testament literally when modern Christianity is based around the new testament? The old testament has a lot of outdated rules that are no longer relevant today like how a woman's arm is to be amputated if she kicks a man in the balls. Would you support these kinds of laws just because they're in the old testament?

Would you support of stoning your ex-wife to death because she divorced you?

[nikomas]

Because some of us might find it a little hypocritical to "modernize" the word of god, among other things, lol.