[All] Officer Squads

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[EliteGren]

Played a bunch of games as brits since the patch and it literally happens every single game than I'm left with a 2 men LT squad that doesn't provide me any bonuses because the 'officer' in it dies. After the hp decrease (and before it aswell quite frankly) the LT is easly lost. It doesn't seem right that you still got 2/3 of your squad but it's not doing what it's supposed to.

IMHO all guys in the officer squads should be able to provide the bonus aslong as the squad is alive, so the bonus is transfered if the officer leader dies (preferable solution). If this doesn't work then please re-increase the HP of the Officer in the squad again (axis officer might not back to full 140hp mind you) to prevent this highly annoying issue. Since I only played brits I cannot be 100% sure if this same problem goes for all the other officers but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't, it happens consistently with LTs and Captains though.

[Hicks58]

Tbf, as far as Brit Officers are concerned the health is no more than they once were. You've actually gained the ability to take a tank shell to the squad and still be able to retreat it and preserve the vet.

If the Officer in the squad dies, you can either keep using the guards as a few extra guns pointed at the enemy or go ahead and preserve the vet.

However... If it becomes too big of a glaring issue, we'll see about either cranking up the Officer's health or spreading the buff over the squad.

[EliteGren]

Well the patch lists this change:

-Lieutenant -  100hp down to 65hp, 2x Tommy guards, increase to 205 MP

That's almost a 40% HP decrease for the essential part of the squad! I don't even see how this makes sense, the health of the LT should have been kept the same and the guards lowered seems more logical to me. Heck, just adding 2 tommies to the LT we had and the price increase are enough, no reason to lower the HP of anything except the Wehr officer.

Sure you can retreat and get the vet, but the issue is that the LT himself went down in HP and this is why you buy the squad in the first place, to get the LT and his bonus.

The health all in all may be higher but other than for preserving vet it does not add anything, in fact I prefer the LT in his previous iteration as of now - where he could atleast survive a direct mortar shell and not just make me have 2 useless enfield tommies.

[nikomas]

I once said, the patch list got so long I had trouble keeping track of it all...

PRE-PATCH = 60 or 65HP
PLANNED PATCH = 100HP (was planned for several months)
OFFICER REWORK = 65HP (has been planned for much shorter than above)

You actually gained 5 HP or if burn was right it's the same as before.

[brn4meplz]

That segment of notes is misleading, as the officers had 60 and 65 points before. Internally, their health was buffed to 100 and the the squad system was put in place.

[EliteGren]

Nevermind about that then, I still think the health distribution within the squad needs to be changed so the officer himself has higher HP and the guards HP lowered, in the end the HP of the squad is the same. It just makes more sense this way in the end

And yes I usually played RCA when I had Lieuts, that's perhaps why I feel they're so much weaker. But no one was talking about tanks anyway

E.g. 50 HP for guards and 95 HP for LT would be much more logical to have. The HP difference between guards and leader is not big enough atm

[nikomas]

All guards are standard troops pertaining to their models, most officers are intentionally not stronger than their guard counterparts. The primary reason for guards was to give the officer squads more survivability and this especially regarding the Lui/Captain squads. Their job is to help fend off the lone troop and provide a buffer to retain vet on officers. It was either this, or buff all officers up to superhero level health, and that option was sillier in a lot of ways.

It also looks really, really cool and makes more sense than a lone guy, but that's another point entirely.

Edit:

The reason it's kept below 80 for all officers IS so that one shot from a medium tank (Sherman/PzIV = 87.5 damage) can kill one, heroic crits still give you a 50/50 of surviving the hit and the guards can also eait it for you if you get lucky, as mentioned above they are also vet buffers.

[EliteGren]

The primary reason for guards was to give the officer squads more survivability and this especially regarding the Lui/Captain squads. Their job is to help fend off the lone troop and provide a buffer to retain vet on officers. It was either this, or buff all officers up to superhero level health, and that option was sillier in a lot of ways.

It also looks really, really cool and makes more sense than a lone guy, but that's another point entirely.

I'm not complaining about the squad thing, I guess it's cool and all. The thing that bothers me is this part:

officers are intentionally not stronger than their guard counterparts.

I don't see any reason for this? The officer should always be stronger than the guards so he is more likely to survive and not leave you with 2 useless rifle men

[Hicks58]

It may be reasonable to kick the health of the Officers up to 80 and 85.

However, the WM Officer has a health of 85 and is supposed to be offset in it's buffs/offmap by being the most survivable. To retain that status, it'd have to go back up to silly health. It'd be setting off a trend that'd spiral quickly out of control.

Also, lowering the guard health would be a little bit silly. They currently stand at 65 HP and Soldier armour (For CW), bring it down and the guards really lose combat capacity - Which is where the combat capacity is supposed to come from in the Officer squad, not from the Officer himself.

The only real option that doesn't fuck about with the combat effectiveness of the Officer squads would be to allow ALL members to give out the buff.

Either way... It'll stay as it is for a while until it's had more than a couple days play testing. It may just be a case of needing to adjust, after all the new Officers squads have lost nothing for the Officers themselves with the exception of the WM one - Which is still incredibly durable.

[AmPM]

What combat capacity?

Officers ONLY exist for their buffs, or their offmap.

If you buy a squad and the only important part of it dies easier than before, why keep it around?

Ah, good old EIRR balancing in action.

[aeroblade56]

i was going to say.... i don't use officers to fight.

[EliteGren]

Ok, a few months ago the american officer was changed so he's not used as a combat unit. Now we use combat effectiveness for officers as an argument? And turn all officers into combat effective units? We are going nowhere..if you want them to be combat effective add 1 or 2 more guys if you wanna go down that route. Or how about SMGs. Yeah SMGs would be a good idea. Wait..

[nikomas]

What?

The american 2 man squad has had descent combat capability in comparison to the other officer, it's two men and one of them has a thompson, both with heroic crits and armor and the same health the CW lui has.

[EliteGren]

The american 2 man squad has had descent combat capability in comparison to the other officer, it's two men and one of them has a thompson, both with heroic crits and armor and the same health the CW lui has.

Thanks, I know. What other officer? I was talking about the 1 man Thompson rambo iteration of US Officer. The american officer performs way better than the LT anyways because the LT weapon is 1) a sten and 2) the sucky LT version at that with the silly range and long ass cooldowns (sten is already inferior to thompson).

However don't take this as a suggestion to make all officers US officer-esque but instead raise HP of the individual officer instead to around 80 like hicks pointed out. I don't even see why a tank should be able to one shot such unit anyway, combined arms needs to be promoted and you don't see people use LTs very often. I know some die hard anti-LT users like Wind refusing because it's just so squishy (even now) and the MP could be better spent on tommies, which might actually even be the case right now (cost is close to tommies now..think about that for a while).

[Hicks58]

Hoo boy. Use the word combat in the same sentence as an Officer and everybody gets all misunderstood on your ass.

CW Officers in particular were squishy as hell to both infantry and tanks. You make them more resistant to either of those and whether you like it or not, as a technical term you ARE increasing it's combat capacity. New Officer squads can't really be taken down by a wandering basic infantry squad in their current format (Or at least require good circumstances/patience), and require a fair amount of force to put down. Old ones could be pulled to bits by a wandering PzGren squad.

As a squad format, they've got some staying power vs infantry if they get jumped (Some time to back off/wait for help) and gain vet preservation vs tank rounds and artillery. For one squad of Tommy's you've gained +25% accuracy for the rest of them, which I'm pretty sure is worth it (Kicks you up to Gren Kar/G43 levels of acc). Captains give +10% health and -10% incoming damage/accuracy (One or the other, don't have Corsix open this second) which is a substantial buff to staying power for units with 65 HP and Soldier armour. The buffs are worth the loss of a single squad.

[AmPM]

Depends on the numbers, but 5 squads are bstter than 4 squads + 10% captain in survivability and damage, and equals 4 +25% LT in damage but beats it in health.

[aeroblade56]

I have had  2/3 guise with the LT dead. fucking annoying.

[XIIcorps]

unlucky dice I guess my results so far are both bodyguards died before cptn.