Hungarian dictatorship

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[LiquiDeath]

yes pls,

i would like to hear objective opinion from rolcsika.

And I would like to hear about aftermath  of Iceland 'revolution' (what was it about anyway?) 2-3 years ago from icelandicmaniac, as it i remember received substantial media spin here in EU as well...

[Unkn0wn]

I look at this thread and wonder sometimes....

Does Bear even know when the EU was formed?

Well, if you start counting from the Treaties of Rome, which is a fair starting date for the concept of 'European integration' then he's only off by about 10 years . Nonetheless it has played a major role in European peace and prosperity. I expect that if Orban takes this shit too far they will just start sanctioning Hungary, which in its current shitty state is very dependent on EU support and full common-market access. 

[AmPM]

It could say FU and turn the other way though. Would be interesting to see money coming in from other sources in Eastern Europe, Greece, Italy and Spain.

[Unkn0wn]

It could, just like the UK could, but the economic costs of stepping out of the union would be gigantic, especially for a small and relatively closed off economy like Hungary's. It'd just go the way of 1970's Spain and Greece.

[Sachaztan]

It's just a shame that the EU is a bloated corrupted cesspool, where backhanded and shady deals are the norm. I don't think anything will be done about Hungary until it is too late.

Oh and to piss me off even more the ruling party of Sweden protects Fidesz. Raoul Wallenberg would fucking turn in his grave.

[rolcsika0128]

I've just found this thread. Unfortunately I'm not at home atm and not gonna type a wall of text from my mobile. Will post my opinion if I ever manage to get home......

[AmPM]

He just has to dodge a few checkpoints along the way.

[Unkn0wn]

It's just a shame that the EU is a bloated corrupted cesspool, where backhanded and shady deals are the norm. I don't think anything will be done about Hungary until it is too late.

 I think if anything, the EU is a lot less corrupt than most of the member-state's governments. People often complain its process isn't transparent but that's all nonsense to be honest, it's just that nobody ever bothers to read the EU's website and media never reports on it because it's deemed too boring.

[AmPM]

Unknown is Belgian, since their country doesn't exist they had to create an organization. He will defend it unto death.

[Unkn0wn]

Well, I also intensively studied the EU at university, so I think I know a thing or two about it. It's just that most people opposing the EU are uneducated bigots, like UKIP's Nigel Farage. (I met him in a, irish, bar in Strassbourg once, he and his UKIP goons are an absolute distasteful bunch)

Member-states very quickly just pass the blame to the EU when something goes wrong, it's an excellent scapegoat really. Then, when the EU actually does something good (like certain pieces of legislation), it just gets sold as something the government decided on, so the EU doesn't get much credit for anything either.

[AmPM]

Well, I also intensively studied the EU at university, so I think I know a thing or two about it. It's just that most people opposing the EU are uneducated bigots, like UKIP's Nigel Farage. (I met him in a, irish, bar in Strassbourg once, he and his UKIP goons are an absolute distasteful bunch)

Member-states very quickly just pass the blame to the EU when something goes wrong, it's an excellent scapegoat really. Then, when the EU actually does something good (like certain pieces of legislation), it just gets sold as something the government decided on, so the EU doesn't get much credit for anything either.

Welcome to being the United States.

[Sachaztan]

Yeah those massive subsidies to wine and tobacco farmers are totally for the good of the European peoples and not due to behind the scenes bargaining.

[rolcsika0128]

Well first of all, I’ll try to stay unbiased as much as I can. Luckily, I’m not a voter of any party here in Hungary, since every single party lacks of common sense… common sense is not so common among these guys after all…

Just before I put my opinion into shape, I’d like to emphasize something: there IS democracy here in Hungary, saying we are „ceased to be a democracy” is a bit of an overstatement.

We, everyday people barely sense anything from this shitty game of politicains, aside from the non-negligible fact that the mid class is rapdily becoming poorer due to the power hungry politicians desperately trying to ensure that they remain in power as long as possible, while stealing as much as they can and claiming that the most important issue of ours is fighting the national debt and doing nothing constructive to fix the economy.

Every problem Hungary is facing right now is due to the fail economic policy especially from the early 2000s. From 1998 to 2002 Orban used to be the president of Hungary, and the country was doing fairly good. Then the 2002 elections followed, which was crucial. Orban’s party (FIDESZ) sustained a defeat against the left-wing „liberal”-socialist coalition. It was actually a very close matchup ( FIDESZ: 48,7%), and the socialists (MSZP;46 %) had to form a coalition with the „liberals” (SZDSZ; 5,3%) to gain majority over FIDESZ. And here comes my own opinion, which might not be true but seems evident to me: this defeat took Orban by surprise, since as I’ve already mentioned, there was no reason for him not to get re-elected. And after this defeat Orban has also lost the 2006 elections mostly due to the fail political moves he had undertaken and the fact that during the 2002-2006 period the standard of living increased as a result of international loans. (MSZP’s way of keeping the power worked in a short-term, and that’s the reason why we are here atm)

Now let’s take a look at this 2002 election from Orban’s point of view (still my opinion anyway) : you are a respected politicain due to your critical contribution to the Hungarian system-change, and everything goes solid during your presidency. Inspite of all these circumstances you still get beaten by like 2 %, I imagine this as some kind of a breakpoint in his life. He’s gone insane since then lol…

During the MSZP-SZDSZ era the national debt soared, and by 2008 as a result of false economic policy + the crisis, we are currently floating in liquid crap up to our necks…. And now we are finally back on topic.

Orban is currently aspiring to ensure he keeps the power this time (unlike 2002 elections when he did nothing for it) , whereas trying to avoid getting the EU angry (which he obviously failed lol)… So it’s true that his main goal is to make it impossible for the socailists (MSZP) to win an election again, but Hungary is far from being a dictatorship. People are free to speak, think and believe in whatever they want to, Orban does not oppress people. I’m not saying we are heading towards a good direction, in fact we are in a serious trouble in every sense, and Orban has a part in it, but what EU and other „journalists” (most of them have never been here) claim are just party right, but mostly mis-statements.

To sum up: On the one hand, we need the EU’s financial support undoubtedly, we can’t just leave it, therefore Orban has to come to an agreement with  the leaders of the EU, and this means he has to give up some of his insane ideas about tricky regulations.. On the other hand, not everything is entirely true that is being said about us, not by a longshot...

As for the hate towards gypsies (roma people), I'm more biased about that topic since I've had some incidents already... mostly the reason why I started working out and doing some krav-maga Anyway, I'll write about this topic later maybe, but there is a reason why the majority of gypsies are hardly tolerated in mid-class people's eyes..

Sorry if this is just confusing and barely understanadble, I wrote this on one of my friend’s laptop in a hurry before going out lol….

Have a drink on me, for tomorrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLhFDYQHDQY

[I2ay]

All credibility lost following the Flo Rida link...

[Unkn0wn]

Yeah those massive subsidies to wine and tobacco farmers are totally for the good of the European peoples and not due to behind the scenes bargaining.

There's no denying that lobbies exert influence, but that is the case with any government really. At least the EU has strict guidelines about it, handles it more or less transparently and also gives NGO's and lesser well organised abilities access to the lobbying channels so they too can exert influence, as is clearly illustrated by for example the regulation being drafted for the protection of the bee population. (In which poor environmental agencies had to 'outlobby' the influence of major chemical corporations)

In the US, lobby groups just fund political campaigns, give politicians gifts, etc. All of this is forbidden in the EU. As a result lobby-groups have to resort to less effective means, like pre-drafting legislation for lawmakers to save them workload.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Not at all. but it's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. You can say whatever you want, but the EU parliament generally does a great job at protecting the interest of the European people. (The commission and the member states themselves not so much, but now that the EU Parliament is being given increasingly more power it's going in the right direction) Just look at your consumer rights, environmental protection legislation, etc 90% of that is probably EU law.

[EliteGren]

Have a drink on me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUQT4hykPd0

Sorry I just had to

[Sachaztan]

As for the hate towards gypsies (roma people), I'm more biased about that topic since I've had some incidents already... mostly the reason why I started working out and doing some krav-maga Anyway, I'll write about this topic later maybe, but there is a reason why the majority of gypsies are hardly tolerated in mid-class people's eyes..

Is it any wonder that the Romes are pissed off when your entire society treats them like vermin and they face discrimination every single day from pretty much everyone they meet? How would you feel if you had to live like that your entire life?

[rolcsika0128]

All credibility lost following the Flo Rida link...

raymy man I hate thiss shit bth but i gotta be mainstream when going out with rando mpeople :p i cant listen to acdc, aerostmigh, gnr and stuff like that here :///

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Solution, Kill the people.

[EliteGren]

raymy man I hate thiss shit bth but i gotta be mainstream when going out with rando mpeople :p i cant listen to acdc, aerostmigh, gnr and stuff like that here :///

So mad about this, huge hug incoming