[PE] PE General Balance and Theme Issues

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[AmPM]

So you bitch balance changes take to long because it is done by committee; and you suggest increasing that committee to include the whole community......... facepalm.jpeg will just not cover this level of stupidity....LOL

To be fair, there should be internal testing and review of changes prior to releasing them. I've never been sure why there isn't a test environment for the dev team.

[XIIcorps]

So you bitch balance changes take to long because it is done by committee; and you suggest increasing that committee to include the whole community......... facepalm.jpeg will just not cover this level of stupidity....LOL

Hmm not sure if you lost me there tank or not but what I ment is that as far as the wider community can tell, the BT does no internal testing and does balance based on their own oppinions half of which don't even play the mod anymore.

What I'm saying is that when the balance team come up with issues of balance they have their internal discussion and testing and then realease there intentions to the wider community for their input.

That's how balance would be effective if you had the widest possible community  oppinions on a matter before a decision is reached.

[aeroblade56]

Hmm not sure if you lost me there tank or not but what I ment is that as far as the wider community can tell, the BT does no internal testing and does balance based on their own oppinions half of which don't even play the mod anymore.

What I'm saying is that when the balance team come up with issues of balance they have their internal discussion and testing and then realease there intentions to the wider community for their input.

That's how balance would be effective if you had the widest possible community  oppinions on a matter before a decision is reached.

Testing can be done on small scale which is what they do. the problem is when you put in a large scale and other elements which i dont think is what the BT does?

[Spartan_Marine88]

That's how balance would be effective if you had the widest possible community  oppinions on a matter before a decision is reached.

Funniest thing i have ever heard.

No game or mod will ever balance by the feelings of its community. There may be times when the community's reactions to changes may affect certain outcomes, but largely decisions are made due to an overall plan, and while some changes may be unpopular, if the community was consulted for each patch not only would nothing get done it would definitely separate the community into factions, and things would get a lot worse in terms of arguing then before.

[CrazyWR]

agreed

[XIIcorps]

So your saying a balance dictatorship is better then a balance democracy ?

Ultimately the balance team would still have the final say so things would still get done.
What im saying is that consulatation of the community on  propasals so make sure things are over or under done.

Eg AIRBOURNE Airburst mortar kind of flew underneath the radar.
Was it internally tested ? How was it not deemed op and too cheap at this phase ?

[I2ay]

You ever hear of something called the tyranny of the majority? If a bunch of Ick's rolled around would you be ok with a balance democracy still?

[Unkn0wn]

What makes you think we don't consult the community? It's called the EIR balance discussion forum.

[XIIcorps]

You ever hear of something called the tyranny of the majority? If a bunch of Ick's rolled around would you be ok with a balance democracy still?

Still missing the point how would they make any changes ?

Ultimately it will always come down to the BT doing as they see fit for the good of the colony.

I'm just asking them to make informed changes with people who actually actively play.

[Smokaz]

you cant play and mod eir, havent you noticed

[tank130]

Ultimately it will always come down to the BT doing as they see fit for the good of the colony.

Exactly. A team of six people, using stats, community input, and game design parameters to make informed decisions for the betterment of the mod.

I'm just asking them to make informed changes with people who actually actively play.

Only one member of this balance team does not play on a regular bases. The rest play everyday.

Testing can be done on small scale which is what they do. the problem is when you put in a large scale and other elements which i dont think is what the BT does?

Impossibl solution for a small community and an even smaller group of individuals on the BT. What you have failed to consider is time zones. They only way to test on a large scale is to at least play a 2v2, but preferably a 3v3.
With just a 2v2, you need to be able to get 4 of the 6 BT members all together in one game. Take into account real life commitments and time zones, it is just impossible to coordinate. Now imagine trying to do that with the last 50 or 60 changes we made.

Most large changes are tested in our test environment, but that is a single player environment and gives mediocre results at best.

What the community needs to realize is - EiR:R is the the test environment. We balance the best we can using stats and community input (balance forum) then throw it out there to be tested. If it fails, we reanalyze and throw it back.

What becomes frustrating for this Dev team is simple: We put out a fucking mega ton patch and everyone picks the one or two items that are really broken and claim the whole system is fucked.

AVRE and Mortar burst. 2 items out of about 60 changes and the whole balance team is fucked? All the other items that are being qq about are pretty minor.

Mortar burst is not a balance mistake, it was an input mistake.
AVRE - many threads have been created in the community about this unit and no one fully agrees on a single solution. Everyone agrees it needs fixing, but many argue different approaches. Not sure why you think the BT would nail it in one go, but whatever...

[tank130]

you cant play and mod eir, havent you noticed

You are not that far off TBH

If you assume most people only have a few hours a day to waste on EiR:R, they have to choose to get the mod work done or to play.

If they play, the community bitches nothing is getting done. If they work, the community bitches they don't play.

[AmPM]

Tank, can you please clean this thread up. Arguing about what the balance team does or does not do isn't really something that belongs there, and I made the mistake of taking part in it a little earlier.