eirr is dying

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[MissileJoe]

dat corner looks more promising than corner with players who plays like shits and still makes huge impact in mod's balance design ufeelme

just saying

lold just saying u feelmerofllmaobro?justsaying

[fldash]

It would be possible to prevent spamming single units with a bit of extra work.
Since EIR2 is in the creation phase it may be a good to implement a extra mechanic beside of pool values and resources.

In EIR1 the first two methods to prevent monotone builds are:
a) Unable to field enough units of a certain type due to pool value restrictions
b) The hardcapping of a special unit like the pershing or reward units

And now I would like to explain with a example how I would (try) to implement a spam prevention mechanic:
The initial condition to make that system work is to estimate how much units of a specific type (for example a 57mm ATG) a balanced
company would field in average (Let us assume it's for pieces in a normal build).  So for my example, four would be the average value and for example six could be, let's call it "maximum value".

But here comes the trick: What happens when I want to have 7 ATG's?
Compared to a hardcapping limit, you have still access to >6 ATG's but now the costs start to increase with every extra piece. It could be a slight static increase like +20% or a more complex/incremental increase.


In short: This systems creates a counterpole to a cost effective unit composition with making it less effective when you try to "spam" it.
"Stacking Penalty" could be a good discription for this mechanic. Overview:


Advantages:
+ Once it's set up you can adjust this system to a metagame shift or a balance patch
+ Players who wants to have special company builds have still acces to it - but they gonna pay for it

Disadvantages:
- It might not work and fail hard or restrict player to much in their company build freedom
- Every unit needs it own specific restriction (but maybe not all unit need them)
- Extra work and maintainence necessary to keep it in a good shape

I'm quite sure when EIR was in it's infancy the costs of units ramped as you purchased more than the 'expected' amount.

[Unkn0wn]

I recall Ucross was a fan of that but I'm not sure we actually tried that. I'd have to dig up the discussions in the archives.

Though at any rate, it's a very soft cap, i.e those who want to build gimmicks will still be able to do so and I don't think the cost increase will properly offset the gimmick's effectiveness. I.e if I bring 8 snipers but have very little else and my teammates bring a lot of AT, the opposing team may still be unable to counter me. Even if you were to eventually out-attrition a gimmick, you'd still be pretty frustrated at the end, which is something we want to avoid to begin with. Nobody wants to play versus gimmicks and we don't want it ruining the metagame. (Player A brings a gimmick and defeats player B, next game player B builds a counter-gimmick, etc etc)

[Shabtajus]

EIR:R2

1.Devs should stop talking about incoming patch soonTM, everytime you guys post ''patch is coming next weak'' and we get it after like four months after your promises it makes look your work mentally useless because nobody trust you. And everyone patch is broken, notes of patch is not reflected in game (rep kits for rew units are not working, some doctrine abillities are not working) so it would not be a good start of making EIR:R2, because new peoples come to forums and they read about great but broken game... Not good comercial

2. Adding game modes is not that cool idea in enviroment where you can get tons off-maps and beat that defensive line very easy. Get rid of off-maps and make game modes being choosed random as its is now other way it will fail like failed game modes we had in the past (allies atack, axis atack, R+) because nobody likes atack defensive lines. If you will go for those game modes make sure to make higher reward for atacking etc higher % get rew units, additional gold like 200 or so. As for capture the flag disable out caping but make capped sectors generate more pop than in regular game modes to prevent camping next to the flag.

3. leave doctrines, no need to dump them, its the main reason we like EIR:R so much and vet ofc. Doctrines must give some unique abillities. My point here is we need get rid from doctrines any accuracy, penetration, damage and other statistic buffs because the same buffs for units you are getting from vet.

4. as for balance, EIR:R is not that imbalanced, its just some players who cant win vs some factions they go QQ, they try use the ''OP'' faction by themselves and loses, so ofc blame balance not your skills. No games can be balanced. The main problem so far is that doctrines choices pushes us to use and spam only those units who gets buffs. Allies are not under powered but to boring. Get some big ass tanks to allies, some nice arty pieces to axis and everybody will be happy, because lately allies complains about axis getting heavies, axis complains about allied arty and support spam. AmPM posted some good ideas about it tbh

5. new players will come and will go. wanna make them stay? Ask for old guys to mentor them. Etc Mentor Smokaz has 5 followers. he take cares of them. In leaderboard mentors should be showed and get points for his student's played games and get some medals for it and reward units. if mentor plays vs student take away half points from him  he earns for playing with his student. Make it  honourable thing to help new guys. Trust me we have a lot of good player around here with BIG egos lol it will make them wanna help newbies if they will be showed as heroes

[Unkn0wn]

It'll be EIR 2, not EIR:R 2, lol.

Adding game modes is not that cool idea in enviroment where you can get tons off-maps and beat that defensive line very easy. Get rid of off-maps and make game modes being choosed random as its is now other way it will fail like failed game modes we had in the past (allies atack, axis atack, R+)

We definitely plan to change the way off-maps work. (It is likely for example that they would be tied to the warmap)
Allies/Attack attack, R+, ME aren't exactly gamemodes, they're starting conditions... the gamemode is MCP (Map controlled population). When we say different gamemodes, we mean entirely different victory conditions (Convoy, VP points, etc you get the idea)

3. leave doctrines, no need to dump them, its the main reason we like EIR:R so much and vet ofc. Doctrines must give some unique abillities. My point here is we need get rid from doctrines any accuracy, penetration, damage and other statistic buffs because the same buffs for units you are getting from vet.

Nobody is talking of dumping doctrines. We are doing exactly what you are talking about, i.e largely getting rid of boring % stat buffs and focusing on new abilities, unlocks and the like. (That players can slot at a price, like they do with the bottom doctrine table stuff currently)

5. new players will come and will go. wanna make them stay? Ask for old guys to mentor them.

While a mentoring program certainly has merits, we first need to ensure that the game itself is accessible enough for people to manage WITHOUT having to rely on other community members. It would be lazy and naive to rely on the community to overcome what is essential a problem with the mod's design.

[Groundfire]

1.Devs should stop talking about incoming patch soonTM, everytime you guys post ''patch is coming next weak'' and we get it after like four months after your promises it makes look your work mentally useless because nobody trust you. And everyone patch is broken, notes of patch is not reflected in game (rep kits for rew units are not working, some doctrine abillities are not working) so it would not be a good start of making EIR:R2, because new peoples come to forums and they read about great but broken game... Not good comercial

And this.. you have absolutely no idea how many moving cogs and pieces there are before doing a patch. So tbh, you get what you pay for. If you pay nothing then you get the patch that our volunteer hours provide. This game is complex. It takes multiple people delivering for it to work, if one person stops or leaves, it falls apart. So, if you think you can do better, well then get coding and put your money where your mouth is if you are going to be such a critical consumer.

[Shabtajus]

it was said nothing but true in my post. Who asks you to say a date when patch is coming? if u r not sure than better is not say, as for broken stuff its all the same promises, if i cant make my promise real i just dont make them, Simple as that and no need to be so mad here

[nikomas]

it was said nothing but true in my post. Who asks you to say a date when patch is coming? if u r not sure than better is not say, as for broken stuff its all the same promises, if i cant make my promise real i just dont make them, Simple as that and no need to be so mad here

And then we'd get people going shouting "EiRR devs never tell us anything!" or "When the heck is the next patch, devs should tell us this stuff!".

Lose-Lose and all that.

[Shabtajus]

And then we'd get people going shouting "EiRR devs never tell us anything!" or "When the heck is the next patch, devs should tell us this stuff!".

Lose-Lose and all that.

read carefully nikomas, i said about date of patch not what patch includes

[Groundfire]

Well no, see you are throwing a tantrum like a child. We give you an estimated time frame and don't patch, well whoops. You know, just forget about the mountains of work and years of support we have all put towards this mod, nevermind the amount of patches that we "Did" get out on time when we expected.

We have never given anyone date specific release times, just estimations cause honestly, shit pops up and when shit pops up, this game is not important, so you'll just have to wait, mkay?

I am not going to even address what constitutes as "broken stuff," because you clearly have no idea the overwhelming amount of files that need to be changed, synced and tested. Some of which we cannot test ourselves, as I know that is the case with the launcher. Alot of the stuff we need to change and fix is from previous coders who had their own coding methodology and half the time, we are just sitting there trying to figure out how they made it work in the first place.

So, you can bitch, but it will not help, in fact the way you do bitch hurts the mod because the new players do come on here and they do see people like you screaming "THE GAME IS BROKEN," whenever you can, which doesn't help us in the least. There are multiple people here that do this and it's atrocious.

Every time you do this, we will pretty much ignore you no matter how true your statement is. Man, let me tell you what, when you guys harp on every little blemish this mod has, well it just makes me want to sacrifice what little spare time I have to work on a mod and have my work called shit half the time. It's really encouraging, thanks guys! *sarcasm*
Be constructive, contribute your own work or gtfo and that's all that I will say on this subject.

[nikomas]

To add to above, if anyone here thinks the "Fuck Repair Kits" thread was a joke? It was not, really really not. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why they've been coded like they are. I know HOW they work, but I cannot understand WHY anyone would do it like that.

[GORKHALI]

if u guys need someone i am willing to learn and help u guys but i need ur help and guidelines to do so, I am willing to do anything so PM me if u think u can use extra hand to help . i know i need to start from very begening but i am will to learn everything. i am free for my holidays so maybe i can learn something and can help u guys out.

i know very little about corsix so u guys have to be patience with me. 

[tank130]

if u guys need someone i am willing to learn and help u guys but i need ur help and guidelines to do so, I am willing to do anything so PM me if u think u can use extra hand to help . i know i need to start from very begening but i am will to learn everything. i am free for my holidays so maybe i can learn something and can help u guys out.

i know very little about corsix so u guys have to be patience with me. 

If you want to help with RGD, there are a ton tutorials on the internet to teach you. The first step with that is to create your own mod and learn to change stuff.

If you want to help with scar coding, then I suggest you take a course or use online references. Same thing, create your own mod and start coding shit.

If you want to help with art, there are a ton of tutorials on how to use Photoshop. Try to recreate our launcher and all the buttons, icons, etc for practice.

If you want to help with modeling, there are a ton of tutorials on the internet as well.

Every member of the dev team tries to fit in as much volunteer time as possible on this mod. The reason it takes a long time to complete shit is we don;t have endless free time. What that means is, if we do not have time to get the work done, we do not have time to teach someone from scratch.

If you know how to RGD code, but do not know how to load the changes into our system, no problem. We can teach you that, but we can't teach you how to code or use photosop etc.

[Tymathee]

Yay EIRR. Happy for what you've done.

Wish I could help out but i've got too much stuff on my plate already with church, work, my "2nd job" and home stuff.

Well maybe a little, I can RGD code easy enough so if you need something I can always help out part time but I can't promise too much. Email/PM me, whatever.

[rolcsika0128]

EiR:R will never die. Let's not say "eirr is dying" , use the expression "it is gathering strength" .  

[tank130]

Uploading the bug fix patch now. Will take about 1 hour or so from this post

[Sach]

In all iterations Europe In Ruins was one of the best mods I've ever played, both in ambition and execution, and its criminal that more people didn't play it.

I've read through a lot of the comments and must admit, I was never that much of a 'technical min/maxer' kind of player so find it difficult to comment on some of the more balance or system specific points raised. I would make a few points though:

1. Echoing Elitegren, somewhere along the line some of the 'flavour' got lost. I think this might be partly the little things like he said, after battle reports and named companies. I think its also some of the bigger things, doctrines (batshit unbalanced or otherwise) that allowed truly flavoured companies like double Tiger or all airborne.

2. The community. Its a little cliché maybe but I think some of you underestimate quite how toxic an environment a relatively small number of players created. 2007/8/9 there were some really good players who thought a good game was the most important goal. 20010/2011 that got lost somewhere with winning at all costs, game dodging, smurfing etc under the banner of 'wanting to play with friends' or whatever it was. If I had been new to the game then I would never have stuck it. Heck, I wasn't new to the game and it still turned me off.

3. Unknknknown - I mean really. Its been like 6 years. Is it still (was it ever?) appropriate to have a Belgian so involved in any project thats trying to achieve success?

[Tymathee]

EIRR, you area the girl we stay friends with because we know she'll be an awesome girlfriend but don't get with her because we are unhappy with what we perceive are flaws but are what make her unique amongst other women.

[Shabtajus]

EiR:R will never die. Let's not say "eirr is dying" , use the expression "it is gathering strength" .  

or you can compare EIR:R to African kids, they aint skinny they just gathering weight slower than american kids 

[deadbolt]

EIRR, you area the girl we stay friends with because we know she'll be an awesome girlfriend but don't get with her because we are unhappy with what we perceive are flaws but are what make her unique amongst other women.

eirr is a whore that gets raped by the same people err' day.