Brits.

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[aeroblade56]

Gentleman, im here before the council of elders to ask what is to become of the commonwealth Firefly?

I don't know my stats near as good as others do but i think i know some of the raw stuff.

Let us compare the firefly to other units of similiar use such as the
geschutzwagen or marder or 50mmHT.

The firefly cost 12 pop but you wouldn't take a firefly without a cct so lets call it 14 pop  

and you would probably want 2 wagons instead of 1 since they are micro intensive and what not.
                             Pop       Health     Pool    Damage    Cost                     Range
Firefly                     12          550        15        125      480/95/320              55

CCT/Firefly               14         550         21        125     660/180/385             57.5?

geschutzwagen         6          375         9          185      350/75/150              60

Marder                     6           375        6          150      300/30/150              60

50mm                      5           325         6         115       300/165/0               60

so while you can take 3 Fireflys you can afford 2x as many geschutzwagens marders and 50mm's

There are many problems with the Commonwealth as they are very pop intensive and easy to counter in most situations

The way Brits are set up are with the use of button( A good useful button)  currently since there isnt one they run into problems using piats as effective as possible and saving units from being rushed such as a firefly since a blitz panther wont give a flying fuck about Button.


On another similiar note the CW hurt very bad with the officers and many other units for instance to bring infantry that can compete with anything more than a volksgranadier they need to bring officers which is another 8 pop so you really need 18 pop to fight.

[GrayWolf]

ff has turret.
ff can kite.
ff has better armor.
ff has better accuracy.
RCA ff can pen anything + has bonus dmg (20%).

I like  how ppl cannot support their TDs and then they lost'em in less than 10 seconds.

[XIIcorps]

ff has turret.
ff can kite.
ff has better armor.
ff has better accuracy.
RCA ff can pen anything + has bonus dmg (20%).

I like  how ppl cannot support their TDs and then they lost'em in less than 10 seconds.

mate are you that ignorant?

The firefly is priced this way because on paper under exact conditions its untouchable, this being either bren tommies or the bren carrier buttoning the intended target and the FF just sniping it to death.

The problem here being,
1. Bren tommies button has been nerfed and nerfed again.
2. The bren tommies are easily squashed while buttoning.
3. Bren carrier button has been completely removed thus further hampering the brits.

This exact problem exists with piats,
on paper they are quite effective HHAT.

But in the EIR environment they loose their neiche due to the above 3 mentioned things.

tldr more coming

How do you effectively defend your FF TD from,

Double/Triple Marder rush
Triple schreck clown cars
Double/Triple stomies with single or double schrecks
50mm HT rushes
That "balanced" Henschel strafing run that melts anything costing fuel
ANY Blitz AT be it Vech, or worse Unsurpressable HHAT
Panther rushes
50mm puma rushes
Shitwagon spam

ALL POSSIBLE BECAUSE SHIT BUTTON IS SHIT

And even should you survive all this more often then not someone's playing Luft and just point and clicks a fucking AT missle at your FF.

Lets just face it, British units are fucked on the basis that they all require "command units" to function properly or at peak.

Granted the CCT is cheaper then its Vcoh counter part, but the LT and Captn sure aint.
What used to cost you 4 pop now costs 8 plus extra resources.
And now even despite them having increased survivability with their entourages they are almost not worth taking due to costing almost a much pop as the squads they're meant to buff.

[Hicks58]

That "balanced" Henschel strafing run that melts anything costing fuel

The Firefly is fine, but I'd just like to poke my head in here and say that the Henschel run can go burn in hell whilst being fucked by multiple cacti.

Repeatedly.

[XIIcorps]

The Firefly is fine, but I'd just like to poke my head in here and say that the Henschel run can go burn in hell whilst being fucked by multiple cacti.

Repeatedly.

its ungodly in this environment with limited repairs.
you really cant escape it, I know its LOS based to a degree but cloaked kettens are kinda hard to find in the heat of battle.

Not even hulldown is effective against it.

[GORKHALI]

The Firefly is fine, but I'd just like to poke my head in here and say that the Henschel run can go burn in hell whilst being fucked by multiple cacti.

Repeatedly.

looks like Hicks still raging about losing his pershing to henchel run 

[NightRain]

I am amazed that people still compare a Tank to a anti tank unit. Roles look, sound, feel similar but they aren't. If you want to compare Firefly to something, do not compare it to the following:

Marder
Gwagon (Marder's fatter cousin)
50mm HT

for similar reasons you won't compare a tank hunter to these bellow:

Pak38
Pak40
57mm
6pndr
17pndr


Why you may ask? It is because they are anti tank guns, equivalents so to speak due to PE not having as per standards a pak but instead a tank hunter.

What you SHOULD compare Firefly to:

Panther
M10
M18
King Tiger (questionable, but it has been rated as a tank destroyer)
Hetzer

Reward units such as:

Elefant
Jagdpanzer 4
Achilles

Why are these compareable? These units have above average tank cannon range going beyond 40 meters with the least ammount of range being 45. (Considering all of these above are upgraded). Some of these tanks have equal or slightly less range than the firefly.

Firefly's primary task is to kite enemy targets and engage them from long range as we all know, its reload and firing stats gets worse the closer its estimated target is. All of the units above are tank hunters, some more and some less. They have range to engage mediums with less range and kite comfortabily. From all of these vehicles Firefly isn't the worst in the bunch. It certainly fairs better than a hetzer and outranges panther by little, 47.5 vs 50 was it? No? Oh 47.5 vs 55? Aye. Its damage potential isn't the greatest, 125 damage per shot. It will take time to destroy a heavy, however it can resonably penetrate one. However firefly's greatest enemy is not its gun nor its armor, but its driver. In this case I name him Willie Johnson (No offence to any WJ's if there are any). He wasn't the top notch in the driving school and sometimes seems to mistake that his tank is more of a halftrack than an actual tank, he also seems to think that driving backward isn't an option in his vehicle and loses control of it quite easily.

This leads into weird firefly driving decisions, but there are people who have taught Willie how to drive the tank and gotten absurd ammount of XP on their fireflies.

Now as we have covered, Firefly = weaker the closer its target is and its damage output isn't immersively huge. It is weak to rushes and due to it being a sherman with less health, it is meant to stay behind the line. Whats that you say? You called out a firefly to deal with light vehicles? You do deserve to lose it in that case.

All in all firefly with a CCT, the 14 pop of dual hassle which gives bonus in terms of reload and all the other goodies even increasing firefly's range and ontop of it gives a Cromwell as a shield to protect your firefly incase of surprise rush. CCT blocking is annoying and gives time for firefly to retreat to range, or to support at a risk of loosing its bonus LOS and other stats. The CCT isn't mandadory upgrade but it would improve firefly's effectiveness. That is my mixed feelings of it, it is certainly a expensive tank all. Certainly more expensive than most mediums, with the most expensive one being panther. However, firefly can piss off anyone who uses a slow heavy tank with less range by taking potshots at it. My only grudge with is, is giving killing blows, cause long range gives you benefit of not getting shot, but its drawback is that you sometimes just can't kill anything with it so that you could shower it with XP.

Its a decent tank all in all, people just confuse that it is some form of a marder when infact its not.

[GrayWolf]

I don't want to repeat myself, but :

ff has turret.
ff can kite.
ff has better armor.
ff has better accuracy.
RCA ff can pen anything + has bonus dmg (20%).

I like  how ppl cannot support their TDs and then they lost'em in less than 10 seconds.


Spoiler :

FF is a tank, not TD

[NightRain]

FF is a tank, not TD

so is Panther and King Tiger, but they are still classed more of tank destroyers than multipurpose i.e Tiger, Pershing, P4, Sherman, Cromwell.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Spoiler :

FF is a tank, not TD

Spoiler:

Brits weren't Germans, firefly was intended to be TD from the ground up.

The Germans however tend to have the rule, if its got a turret its a tank not a td.

[ick312]

Just compare the ranges:

ff 55
panther 47,5
normal tankhunter 45

Sorry buy gaywolf nailed it. If you compare it to gayschütz/marder/ ATG etc

I don't want to repeat myself, but :

ff has turret.
ff can kite.
ff has better armor.
ff has better accuracy.
RCA ff can pen anything + has bonus dmg (20%).

I like  how ppl cannot support their TDs and then they lost'em in less than 10 seconds.


Spoiler :

FF is a tank, not TD

[rolcsika0128]

I feel like I have to agree with bolt here. At least partly.

The ff is a really good tank in its current state, but takes a very skilled driver to make the most out of it. Now we got to ask ourselves a question: should this tank be balanced upon experienced drivers, or "average" players? Right now I believe it is based on the former one.

Theoretically it's a tank, not a TD. In fact, it's just a TD with a turret, which is indeed a huge advantage, but it costs a lot of fuel.

"ff has better armor" [than marders etc]  Lol, yes 2 layers of paper instead of 1  ---> significant difference that is

"ff can kite" theoretically it can, however it's acceleration might cause some unhappy moments for the driver

Please do not get doctrines involved. We are trying to balance units without involving docs.

As for the " just compare the ranges argument" , I lol-d. I will not even comment that. The problem is way more complex than that, but whatever ick, I still love you regardless ^^

[tank130]

should this tank be balanced upon experienced drivers, or "average" players?

We always balanced based on skilled players. If we didn't, then everything would be balanced to make tank130 look good.....lol

[skaffa]

Piats are also terrible pls buff

[XIIcorps]

Piats are also terrible pls buff

piats are fine, they just require your enemy to be afk, or silly enough to drive into bren tommies.

Honestly cant we bring back bren carrier button for like 25mu.

PE gets fucking annoying latht Tread breaker slow of death

[GrayWolf]

XIICorps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKqWFhjnORc

Piats are actually 2nd best AT weapon for inf (best is double shreck on stormies). Why ?
Piats don't care about obstacles or smoke, they always deal some dmg.
You guys just have to learn that there's sth like "ground target" and use it >.>

[aeroblade56]

XIICorps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKqWFhjnORc

Piats are actually 2nd best AT weapon for inf (best is double shreck on stormies). Why ?
Piats don't care about obstacles or smoke, they always deal some dmg.
You guys just have to learn that there's sth like "ground target" and use it >.>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgX0H99fXok

yeah ofc they always deal damage

[GrayWolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgX0H99fXok

yeah ofc they always deal damage

You're not using "ground target" aren't you ?

[aeroblade56]

You're not using "ground target" aren't you ?

Yes i was on all but one when i was being pushed by the p4ct

[XIIcorps]

They always deal damage.....

When they hit.....

and penetrate......