Pool Removal Poll

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[shockcoil]

Both of those games suffer from the exact same issue though, that there are obvious best choices and everyone in a competitive scene runs what is basically the same list for each army. There is a reason "net lists" have become so popular in the last few years. Many units are ignored unless the entire list is built around it, and each category has a very simple best option. This is such an issue, that they have to force you to take units you would otherwise ignore in order to play.

I don't think you want to take you design from Games Workshop or Battlefront =)

GW is also dedicated to taking your money. Each new Codex is the most batshit thing around so you buy their models.

[EliteGren]

No, but can you imagine the chaos that would incur if there was no restrictions on compositions?

Refer to my earlier post.

The point is that every "spam" is really one dimensional and shallow. Let me say this, it will be chaotic the first week or so. But once people realize that after the initial fun their company is actually really that easy to defeat after people have adapted a bit, they will naturally gravitate torwards a more balanced build by default due to

A) realizing their company can not deal with a lot of things
B) they want to actually win

This is important: since everyone wants to be prepared against any sort of spam, and realizing that a pure "spam company " is vulnerable and they want to feel safe with that company to actually win, they will keep adding different counters to it and in the long run you are not left with the majority of people running 30 commando jeeps, but with people running companies that are prepared for every sort of spam attack, AKA rather balanced companies (omg!!one!11)

[nikomas]

WH was just another example, there are many of them, substitute it for whatever one you want.

GC1 or GC2? I've played both, and GC2 games often boiled down to was a total artillery fests and heavy tank spamming, GC1 was releaed before multiplayer gamiing was "Big" and I don't remember it being balanced either.

You'll have to be more specific.



I love both games thou, GC1 is one of my all time favorites.

[Unkn0wn]

Refer to my earlier post.

Your argument is basically that people will adapt and just have to 'deal with it' when a certain gimmick is first used. But it then automatically requires everyone else to play the gimmick game to counter an existing gimmick. People who just like to build less gimmicky companies won't stand a chance, will be incredibly frustrated by the gameplay that is essentially being forced on them and may just end up leaving.

A game without any restrictions in which gimmicks and counter-gimmicks are the most effective, it could be argued, is just as restrictive for the group of players that do not want to play that way. (Restrictive if they want to win at least, which we must assume they do.

Further more, the fact that this is a TEAM game first and foremost means that any weaknesses in your own company can be compensated by your teammates. This takes the spamming problem to a whole new level when groups of friends play unknowns.

[PonySlaystation]

There are already restrictions with price and pop. Pool only forces you to spread out your units into different categories, ie being forced to have less infantry in favor of support. It's only an artificial barrier that limits creativity and forces all players to have same amount of support, tanks, vehicles and infantry. It makes for incredibly dull gameplay when Commando players can't specialize and build more infantry.

It doesn't even have anything to do with spam. Using a large number of a single specialized unit is ineffective for a multitude of reasons unless that unit is subject to overpowered doctrines, abilities or unbalanced price/pop. (ex: Greyhound being able to cap).

The simple solution is to remove pool for a test period and see how it changes.

[aeroblade56]

lol dafuq pony is partially right. it should receive a test period like everything else. and as it has been said can be turned on/off easily.

[Unkn0wn]

There are already restrictions with price and pop. Pool only forces you to spread out your units into different categories, ie being forced to have less infantry in favor of support. It's only an artificial barrier that limits creativity and forces all players to have same amount of support, tanks, vehicles and infantry. It makes for incredibly dull gameplay when Commando players can't specialize and build more infantry.

It doesn't even have anything to do with spam. Using a large number of a single specialized unit is ineffective for a multitude of reasons unless that unit is subject to overpowered doctrines, abilities or unbalanced price/pop. (ex: Greyhound being able to cap).

The simple solution is to remove pool for a test period and see how it changes.

It's being done, but it's no test period. We had years of this mod without any sort of availability and the game wasn't more fun or popular in any way I can assure you.
Also, sniper blob protected by RR AB blob. GO.

[chefarzt]

Guys?Rly? Its off!
Still limited by resources, and tbh who would want to spam ab with half or more of them being useless coz no mun?
And you can also limit certain hard hitting units anytime, i mean u can limits superheavy tanks, you can do do the same to snipers, i see no reason why pool is needed. Actually without pool i can have 1 more sherman and 4 more rifles in my ab coy. Not really a biggie.

[EliteGren]

Your argument is basically that people will adapt and just have to 'deal with it' when a certain gimmick is first used. But it then automatically requires everyone else to play the gimmick game to counter an existing gimmick. People who just like to build less gimmicky companies won't stand a chance, will be incredibly frustrated by the gameplay that is essentially being forced on them and may just end up leaving.

A game without any restrictions in which gimmicks and counter-gimmicks are the most effective, it could be argued, is just as restrictive for the group of players that do not want to play that way. (Restrictive if they want to win at least, which we must assume they do.

Further more, the fact that this is a TEAM game first and foremost means that any weaknesses in your own company can be compensated by your teammates. This takes the spamming problem to a whole new level when groups of friends play unknowns.

..you don't need a gimmick to counter a gimmick. There are gimmicks out there that suck ass. Encountering a gimmick doesn't force people to play a gimmick game in return, a good player will always beat a worse player, no matter what kind of "gimmick" he runs, unless there is a glaring imbalance with a unit itself / doctrine ability. People who play with more traditional company composition will do just fine if they're on par.

You have to realize that people who make a more "gimmicky" company have the confidence in their skill to pull it off and make it work and are usually more advanced players, often facing off against a mediocre player who just runs a traditional company. When that happens, it is easier for the mediocre player to blame it on the gimmick rather than admit the opposite player outplayed him.

[chefarzt]

Hey Spam is the word to end all arguments.

[Mysthalin]

Most "conventional" companies are actually far scarier than any gimmick me and Dave could ever collectively come up with. It's just that spam coys are fun.

[GrayWolf]

Return the pool as fast as you can. Allies are OP.

- Grayhound spam + mines + cap ability
- Ranger spam
- Spam some more RR + Croc.

[CrazyWR]

ffs Gray, try playing with those companies before you complain.

[aeroblade56]

lawde. ALLIES OP CUZ NO POOL. ALLIES UP CUZ POOL.

no but serously. just cause garry losses its op.

i used 2 rr squads and he called OP.

[Shabtajus]

Return the pool as fast as you can. Allies are OP.

- Grayhound spam + mines + cap ability
- Ranger spam
- Spam some more RR + Croc.

Calm down caln dowmn, everything is fine.

Older players remember Nijo. He was allways using balanced coys and was good player. You just could not beat him with spam. As you like to say L2P. Use this advice for yourself.

As for m8 spam i would say that allies has the same feelings about clown cars loaded with shrecks. Can cap. Can put teller. Can rep/move/fire.

All tgese complains you made i bet they born after games where i was playing vs you and in chat you said you was using not serious coys. I eco what crazy said. Try first use these coys you are complaining about than we can discuss

[mrshark]

Spam finds a way. Remove it to see what happens.

[CrazyWR]

spam doesn't find a way, teamwork finds a way.

[Mysthalin]

M8 Spam vs 4 upgun hotchkisses in your company (something that will now not destroy your ability to buy anything else, like.. you know, schwims). GG.

M8 Spam vs 2 Ostwinds in your company. Similar outcome.

M8 Spam vs a singular flowergun. Lol.

In short.. yeah, M8 Spam won't get you far if the enemy does not rely on slow-moving units to lock-down positions. I would know, I pioneered it back in the day (without OP OBM, as well).

[TheIcelandicManiac]

The problem with that myst is that people are going to have to change their companys to fit a hundred roles and lets face it, you can have 4 hotch or whatever in your company but unless you are running a counter company or running spam yourself 4 hotch arent gonna do shit against 20 m8s that are being controlled by a competive player, with removal of pool you are going to be stuck with people trying to fight against everything while being usefull against nothing.

This is only going to be prevented by some radical price changes.

Heed my words, i may have loved the oversupply days but even then the games were a clusterfuck and being in the launcher turned into a constant game of Counter companys.

[CrazyWR]

you mean like how if myst had 4 upgun hotches, and, say, hicks, had 18 m8s, the m8s would rape?