PE Balance and doctrine discussion

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[Scotzmen]

Thread for discussion of PE units and it's doctrines. Suggestions shall be added to the list ETC

If doctrine related, mark with appropriate color, if unit, simply put unit.

Doctrines:

Tank Destroyers

Scorched Earth

Luftwaffe


Units:

ATHT:
Problem: Tread break to powerfull:
Suggestion: decreased duration, 1-2 seconds added onto it's aim time.
Fix: Fixed

Problem: Focus fire to accurate against infantry
Suggestion: decreased accuracy against infantry a small amount
Fix: Fixed

Hotchkiss:
Problem: Up-gun hotchkiss have a incredible ROF and penetration
Suggestion: Decrease ROF and Penetration
Fix: Fixed

Please keep it orderly and on topic.

[XIIcorps]

Marders are only 6 pop and thus spammable i suggest a pop increase to 7

[Hicks58]

Marders are already 1 pop above ATG's, which is their role. I'd advise against it - Marders are pretty fine tbh.

[Scotzmen]

Unit:

Break tread and focus fire are becoming a small problem.

Break tread could probably go with a shorter time too.

Focus fire especially, it shouldn't have the ability to be a sniper cannon for infantry. I suggest, giving it increased pen and damage whilst the ability is active.

[Hicks58]

Tread Break could do with the decreased duration, but it could do with 1-2 seconds added onto it's aim time. Yes, it already has a fair bit of aim time, but you're using a 40-45 range sticky on recharge.

Focus fire... Eh, it's a pain in the ass but it's not such a massive issue.

[aeroblade56]

Unit:

Upgun hotchkiss seems to have a incredible ROF and penetration. 2 hotchkiss upguns will easily take on tanks of similar size prices.

they make churchills a nightmare.

[Hicks58]

Unit:

Upgun hotchkiss seems to have a incredible ROF and penetration. 2 hotchkiss upguns will easily take on tanks of similar size prices.

they make churchills a nightmare.

Just took a look at the upgun entry, it does 75 damage at 2.5 - 3.0 reload.

That's 150 damage per 6 seconds at it's slowest - Putting a Pershing or Tiger to shame. A pair can deal 600 damage in 12 seconds, which is enough to reduce a Sherman or Cromwell to a flaming wreck with only a 10% chance of bouncing the Sherman if you're at long range. Pershings and Churchills are the only thing that can withstand their rounds, but it's still a respectable 0.504 against Pershings and 0.617 vs Churchills. Flanking is obviously guaranteed pen.

20% Extra penetration at both vet 2 and vet 3 only exacerbates the issue, so ya know, penetrate all the things. 0.72 To pen a Pershing when at vet 3 and 0.88 to pen a Churchill when at vet 3. Considering vet 2 is just 20 exp and vet 3 is 55 exp, it's not exactly difficult to get your Hotch's there.

[Scotzmen]

So, suggestion on how much to reduce it by?

[koimn6]

Marders are already 1 pop above ATG's, which is their role. I'd advise against it - Marders are pretty fine tbh.

agree. marder is fine. still there is some marder spam, but 50mm must require some fuel.

[Hobomancer]

agree. marder is fine. still there is some marder spam, but 50mm must require some fuel.

So PE players should pay 300 manpower 140 munis and additional fuel for whats essentially an atg but easier to kill?

I want what you're smoking.

[koimn6]

So PE players should pay 300 manpower 140 munis and additional fuel for whats essentially an atg but easier to kill?

I want what you're smoking.

of course manpower or munition must be cheaper then now.

[Hobomancer]

of course manpower or munition must be cheaper then now.

Its completely fine, I could see maybe a 20 munitions increase or so but if you want to use them you're eating away at your AI capabillities quite heftily, Tacking a fuel cost will only serve to  make the most fuel intensive faction in the game more fuel intensive.

[aeroblade56]

Just took a look at the upgun entry, it does 75 damage at 2.5 - 3.0 reload.

That's 150 damage per 6 seconds at it's slowest - Putting a Pershing or Tiger to shame. A pair can deal 600 damage in 12 seconds, which is enough to reduce a Sherman or Cromwell to a flaming wreck with only a 10% chance of bouncing the Sherman if you're at long range. Pershings and Churchills are the only thing that can withstand their rounds, but it's still a respectable 0.504 against Pershings and 0.617 vs Churchills. Flanking is obviously guaranteed pen.

20% Extra penetration at both vet 2 and vet 3 only exacerbates the issue, so ya know, penetrate all the things. 0.72 To pen a Pershing when at vet 3 and 0.88 to pen a Churchill when at vet 3. Considering vet 2 is just 20 exp and vet 3 is 55 exp, it's not exactly difficult to get your Hotch's there.

that's nuts. How come people havent noticed this kinda stuff before?

[XIIcorps]

that's nuts. How come people havent noticed this kinda stuff before?

Tbh cause aint really faced upguns in ages.

i did say somethung about it 6 months ago comparing upguns to stuarts, but i just got shot down with double.

[Hicks58]

It hasn't been noticed because nobody has cared for the past 6-12 months. Until recently, the mod has been at a minimum player count and those that did play were just running the same old shizzle.

More people are turning up, meta starts shifting along, and the old broken stuff comes to light again.

Also, the 50mm HT is fine, it's explicitly designed as a MU alternative to the Marder due to PE's high FU dependency, and the fact that PE do not get a traditional and reliable ATG that can be constantly recrewed and recycled.

[Hobomancer]

Marders are only 6 pop and thus spammable i suggest a pop increase to 7

57's are only 5 pop and thus spammable, I suggest an increase to 7.

The marder and the 50 mm's are PE's Anti tank guns, They are fine the way they are, Yes they are spammable yes they are fairly quick, But they have no turret to really take advantage of their speed, No armor or health to speak off and cant be recrewed, If anything marders and 50mm's should be cheaper than the allied equivalents, As you cannot recrew them.

[aeroblade56]

yes but doesnt pe have like a ton of AT variants?.

50mm
Marder
LATHT
schreks
At nades
Hotchkiss upgun
Panthers.
Clowncar rape brigades.

That is the non doctrinal stuff.
but once we add the doctrine additions we see
AT Rifles( not really effective vs tanks)
88's
faust on falls.( meh)
Hetzers
Tellers

then you also got things like henschel run. and the AT guided rocket.

[Hobomancer]

yes but doesnt pe have like a ton of AT variants?.

50mm
Marder
LATHT
schreks
At nades
Hotchkiss upgun
Panthers.
Clowncar rape brigades.

That is the non doctrinal stuff.
but once we add the doctrine additions we see
AT Rifles( not really effective vs tanks)
88's
faust on falls.( meh)
Hetzers
Tellers

then you also got things like henschel run. and the AT guided rocket.

Sure, But the thing is, PE doesnt have a lot of Mainline/Heavy at that costs munitions, Unlike all the other factions,

[Hicks58]

yes but doesnt pe have like a ton of AT variants?.

50mm
Marder
LATHT
schreks
At nades
Hotchkiss upgun
Panthers.
Clowncar rape brigades.

That is the non doctrinal stuff.
but once we add the doctrine additions we see
AT Rifles( not really effective vs tanks)
88's
faust on falls.( meh)
Hetzers
Tellers

then you also got things like henschel run. and the AT guided rocket.

And how much of that is hard AT which can be recrewed at minimal cost by a basic infantry squad, delivering anywhere up to 4-5 times it's initial value over? That is what an ATG is, and that's why PE has all of it's glittery options, because it doesn't have ol' faithful to keep on going.

[aeroblade56]

And how much of that is hard AT which can be recrewed at minimal cost by a basic infantry squad, delivering anywhere up to 4-5 times it's initial value over? That is what an ATG is, and that's why PE has all of it's glittery options, because it doesn't have ol' faithful to keep on going.

tbh i hardly can recrew my own atgs they always get destroyed(as they should be).

but the same can be said for PE players they can easily take a atg from the field.