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[April 26, 2020, 05:51:35 pm]
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Author Topic: Revised launcher text  (Read 853 times)
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Illegal_Carrot Offline
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2020, 05:51:35 pm »

Cuz math is sneaky like that. Here's a layman's example why percentages can be misleading when you stack abilities:
I am fully aware of how %s work (interest rates, compounding interest, etc). It's something I considered and factored in when writing these, and it's also something I've discussed with others to get a variety of perspectives.

One of the things I did with this revision was ensure that it still conveys all the same information, and still conveys it correctly to the audience. "Damage * 1.15" is the same thing as "Damage +15%". The '+' indicates that this this a positive increase to a unit's stat on the latter, as does the '* 1.XX' on the former. However, I'm sure we can all understand that '+X%' or '-X%' is much easier to parse and understand than '* 1.XX' or '* 0.XX' to the average person, especially new players.

If anything, the '* X.XX' method is more likely to add errors and unnecessary steps to the equation. For example, when decreasing a value, you must list it as '* 0.XX'. The audience must first catch the difference and then do mental match to actually understand the % and amount that is being reduced. Take Armor doctrine's HVAP. The -15% Damage de-buff is snuck in there with the massive penetration and modest accuracy buff. People are just more used (thru culture, education, society, whatever) to look for a + or a - than a 1 or a 0. From there you have to the mental math and subtract 0.85 from 1.00 to get 0.15, or 15%, to finally understand that it's a -15% Damage debuff. Why add all those unnecessary steps, when "Damage -15%" works just as well?

For anyone who really wants to dig in and calculate the stats, there's nothing stopping them from typing '* 1.15' into their calculator to calculate.

For % change doctrine buffs (which is how the majority of buffs are handled), then '+/- X%' is an obvious, intuitive, and instantly understandable way of conveying just what that doctrine selection will do for a unit, regardless of any other factors. For the rarer exception of a specifically additive buff (ie, +Xm range on a weapon) are specifically listed in such a way so as not to be confused at all with multiplicative buffs. See Armor doctrine's Pour It on 'Em:
Quote
Pour It on 'Em

M4 Crocodile:
+5m range on main gun
Rate of fire +25%
(+110MP)

M8 Scott:
Main gun area of effect +0.3m
(+50MP)

T34 Calliope:
Barrage cooldown -80 seconds
(+150MP)

From there, any further calculations are carried out in simple order of operations.

Thank you, kind sir. My argument from day 1; we don't use additive math; instead, we use multiplicative.
'+X%' is multiplicative. %s are inherently multiplicative. This is just writing them out in a more intuitive and commonly understood way.

Why is there such an aversion to decimals? 1.25 is just as clear to me as +25%; additionally, it's a far more accurate display of how our buffs are applied (as multipliers). This is not just @ Carrot, EVERYONE seems to have some sort of phobia when it comes to decimals.
It's 'just as clear' to you because you know this game and this mod better than anyone else. But not everyone has that deep-level understanding of all the underlying systems. Not everyone wants to perform mental math or calculations to get an idea of what a doctrine does.

Let me pose the same question to you another way: Why is it that CoH2 went with a simple 'Damage +3%' method of listing their unit buffs and not 'Damage * 1.03'? Why is it that MOBAs, like LoL, list item and ability stat increases as either a flat amount ('Damage +10') or a simple % ('Damage +10%'), but never as 'Damage * 1.10'? When businesses advertise a sale to the world, why do they always advertise 'prices 25% off' but never as 'prices * 0.75'?

I'm not condemning anything here, I just don't understand why what I've written is so undesirable.
"Undesirable" is absolutely not what I would describe the current descriptions. They're all accurate (or at least were at the time of writing), and contain relevant technical information. I'm just trying to add a layer of polish on top of that. You yourself said:
- Launcher text needs to be edited and formatted properly. Sloppy editing and text simply looks bad, and gives off a mediocre impression to any visitors. I, personally, insist on a high standard in this regard. It's not difficult to do, and it adds a lot of polish to the mod.
Beyond that, descriptors should be revised from time to time to keep them accurate and relevant, and many descriptors are currently outdated.

Is there a VERY obvious and easily located source people can go to find more detailed descriptions? For some people, it may be handy to have that source open while picking / building their company.
This has come up a few times so far, and I think is the crux of the matter. All the current information listed in the launcher may be relevant to a player for any number of reasons, and so is important in it's own way. But the launcher page is not the best place to have and display all of that information at once. Something like a thorough wiki, or an EiR equivalent to CoH Stats (EiR Stats, anyone?) would do wonders for the mod (it seems like all modern games have a relevant wiki associated with them). The current sidebar (unit leaderboard, price list, map list, launcher lobby status) is excellent for what it is, but is admittedly limited. Perhaps if we could incorporated wiki elements into that, it could be an even handier player resource tool.

We should try to get the forums a little more lively, too.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 06:06:22 pm by Illegal_Carrot » Logged

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