Arti t4 spam - Blitzkrieg point of view

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[Warbirds]

It's no fun having all of my support squads killed by a nebel barrage since they can't pack up and move fast enough to not get burned to death either.

I have to call bullshit on this.  The Nebelwerfer makes a loud racket when it fires.  If you chose not to move your shit when you hear it, don't blame it on the weapon.

[muha2]

It not fun getting you HMG overrun by cheap infantry, its not fun seein your entire starting callin get eaten alive by 3 KCH squads, who are freaking 3 man each! who overrun and kill a goddamn 25 man worth of firepower! Its not fun having your tanks get 4-shot by man packet at (and shecks have good accuracy btw), its not fun being puma/stug spammed, its not fun having your best units- a tier unit get sabotaged, its not fun seeing  2 vet 0 volk squads tear apart a vet 2 AB squad in seconds (the conviction or what ever it is ability).

All I see is "its not fun". Artillery is a part of the game, and it is a valid strategy to artillery your opponent so he will get weaker. If you blob is constantly on a move, and suffers casualties, then it damn takes alot of skill to predict and time the barrage.

Dont like it, deal with it, overcome it. If you cant, maybe this is not a game for you?

Each faction got it's strong points and weak points, we allies strong point is the artillery and air superiority, thats all we got that is better than the axis.

[BoDyBaG2224TLS]

And apparently BARs are god-like, but man I wished I had an lmg in one of my games. Use SF to push back some KCH, and then I was attacked by KCH and MP40s. SF still on a timer had to fall back. LMGs don't have a timer....

[AmPM]

So you are complaining about things that can actually be countered and avoided. Tier 4 Arty is not avoidable in most cases, by the time smoke hits the first round is on its way down.

KCH rush? Try using a single quad halftrack, need to kill them faster? Use a Croc. Schrek spam got you down? Bring out the Anti Infantry squads, suppress them and run them over with infantry. STuG/Puma spam? Learn to bring ATG's or M10's out, stop parking the M10 or Sherman in front of the STuG (I see this constantly) where they hardly penetrate

As I said, if the Axis T4 artillery dropped in 1.5 seconds (It is a t4 afterall and is rather underpowered for the tier it takes) allied players would be screaming about it being impossible to play against.

LMGs do less damage than a BAR rifles, but they can possibly suppress if they are Terror and you sit there for 10-20 seconds.

[Lt_Apollo]

You got numbers, 6 man squads, more tanks, more every thing but upgrades.

Allys get quantity axis get quality. deal with it i am tired of the Allys whining when there units aren't OP, for once we are on fair grounds, the only thing i would change is give Allys more men. its pathetic that you change the subject to whine about an entirely different matter.

and about arty, i think all arty needs to have a huge price increases, no buff no Nerf just highly priced.

[Akranadas]

If you use suppression Fire; that BAR squad does next to no damage.

Allies do not get quantity. Currently Axis get's both

[muha]

Allys get quantity axis get quality. deal with it i am tired of the Allys whining when there units aren't OP, for once we are on fair grounds, the only thing i would change is give Allys more men. its pathetic that you change the subject to whine about an entirely different matter.

Wrong. Unless you are P4/panther and KCH heavy, you can easily outnumber most allied companies.

And ampm, it is true and offmap cannot be countered, just countering his whining of "its no fun". If they make the rocket artillery a 1.5s cooldown I would not really mind, I make sure to constantly shift my forces.

BTW, the allied artillery is not that great..its slow as hell, rocket artillery is awesome though, much more devastating.

[jackmccrack]

Only at the furthest range does the BAR out damage the LMG. It's a 0.7 dps difference.

[AmPM]

Actually you do get quantity, how many Riflemen on field for the same amount of Grens? Volks are worse than Rifles, especially as they both start to vet up.

Your upgrades actually cost less, especially with those nifty infantry CP abilties. 105 BAR is still less than 115 for an LMG if I recall. Schrek is the only thing that stands out as different, but your ATGs cost less, you have a way to keep tanks from running, and you get lots of manpacked AT on Airborne and Rangers.

If I remember right though, all your support costs less as well other than the HMG (not counting the infantry doctrine abilities that lower its cost). So outside of....umm...assault guns....you get more of everything.

Yes Jack, thats for 1 BAR vs 1 LMG...you get 2 BARs per upgrade. Do the math again. 2 LMGs will outdamage the BAR squad, but they cost a hell of a lot more.

[jackmccrack]

I guess its just preference, I just try to avoid going against LMG grens. That's just me.

[jackmccrack]

When I see them, I send my rifles somewhere else

or...just wait for artillery, rofl

[Akranadas]

Oh stfu with Riflemen better than volks bullshit.

Volks are better at long range, even then they get an Upgrade that gives them 5 SMG weapons that rips the shit out of Riflemen for what? 70 Munitions.

Riflemen are only effectively good when in groups or when they are attacking non upgraded, non doctrine enhanced units. You have to out number your opponents infantry to use Riflemen effectively; why do you think people Riflemen spam in vCoH?

Axis infantry are better at long range engagements, and that just so happens to be range that most battles in EiR start out at; then the Allied player has to rush forward with his infantry to use his advantage to win the engagement, to bad they usually take 2-3 unit deaths along the way, reducing the effectiveness of the unit.

Suppression fire doesn't come into this at all, do you want to know why? Because Suppression Fire is fairly rare in EiR with allied players who aren't using stacked, your either using your munitions on AT or your using it to buy units. BAR was designed in CoH to be given to every squad on the field, it was balanced that way to begin with, EiR didn't follow this trend because apparently it's way to powerful to counter (*cough* bullshit *cough*) and the BAR seems to be an Instant win button in the eyes of many of the Axis players here (HAHA, I'm rofling), the MP40 is the ultimate BAR counter; simply draw the BAR fire with another volks squad and roll in with the MP40's (oh shit, now way tactics!) as the Allies can't switch suppress without losing time on the BAR ability.

Axis have the best toys in which to counter everything Allies have. Allies have to scrape every piece of equipment he has in order to counter the already outnumbering, better Axis troops.

[Warbirds]

Oh shit, no way, HMGs, mortars, and snipers!

[Thtb]

Yep, 210 mp rifles are the main reason for many balance props imo, too.

Makeing them 5 pop isent really good since;

-Chanceing vCoH states - didnt we want to stay close to them?
-6 to 5 = 16,55 %  chance in pop
-170 MP to 210 MP = 19,47  nearly 20 % price increase for 15% pop decrease
-Messing with the game is bad; Recrewed hmgs and motars (even if you use a full health squad) only
 have 2/3 there max hp, silly 0 man squads running around.
-Volks cost much less and are not worse, see akra´s post.

[demoner]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't allies at a 46% win rate?

Is this such a required outcry for a 4% difference ?

[TodlichPanther]

Spot on Schultzy baby, this is why you have a large fan base in Iraq. 

insurgence?

----

The artillery is hard to deal with, but without it the americans would be up shits creek in a lot of situations, its what can over balance them, but also at the same time, keep them up to speed, sadly.

But things like t4 artillery are right online with even blitzkriegs t4 of doom CONVICTION which has NO recycle timer, and eats the shit out of anything its up against.

You paint a nice picture but you forget the OP'ness that the axis themselves have as well.

americans should retain artillery, he is not refuting it, his point seems to be that he has to rush the artillery, often resulting in suicidal charges to kill a single rather cheap ( cost wise) howitzer.

[Akranadas]

Spot on Schultzy baby, this is why you have a large fan base in Iraq. 

insurgence?

----

The artillery is hard to deal with, but without it the americans would be up shits creek in a lot of situations, its what can over balance them, but also at the same time, keep them up to speed, sadly.

But things like t4 artillery are right online with even blitzkriegs t4 of doom CONVICTION which has NO recycle timer, and eats the shit out of anything its up against.

You paint a nice picture but you forget the OP'ness that the axis themselves have as well.

americans should retain artillery, he is not refuting it, his point seems to be that he has to rush the artillery, often resulting in suicidal charges to kill a single rather cheap ( cost wise) howitzer.

Allies face a similar thing with an 88/King Tiger/Tiger/Panther

[Hikari]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't allies at a 46% win rate?

Is this such a required outcry for a 4% difference ?

Technically if Allies have a 46% win rate, then Axis have a 54% win rate (46+54=100), therefore the difference would actually be 8%. (smartass)

[Afan]

Akranadas, the american's AMPM ?

[Schultz]

If you guys think things are so inbalanced and that the axis are so omgwtf OP, you should start a new thread and you can go on your crusade for hours but pls dont try to lure this thread in that direction.
What is unacceptable isnt the fact that youre taking this thread out of the original point, but that youre clearly implying that the only way for allies to stand against axis UBER war machine is the artillery spam which is bullshit in my opinion.
Not only youre saying that eir is imbalanced but youre also a spam supporter. Its like youre forced to do it, theres no other way.

I feel suddenly that atgs dont penetrate panthers anymore, mgs dont suppress axis infantry, allied mortars shoot flowers instead of shells, and snipers are using air guns.

I respect your opinion anyway. But this thread wasnt made in an attempt to change things now, but to shoot for a better, fair, more balanced game in 2.0.

And if you want to have your fun with artillery t4 spam, with the new doctrines, axis want it too.
I'm proposing a new t4 blitz arti doctrine, of rocket barages falling on 1.5.
This way we can share the fun, of bombing each other in to oblivion every single game.
And why dont all the new doctrines have t4 artillery, in fact why dont we make it the only t4 possible, since well its so strategical and so tactical and yet so not vcoh.