Quad and M10 spam

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[Haroquen]

It is fun to watch a M10 try and run over some Knights Crosses and catch a faust in the flank.

[jjwa]

Not to mention the surprise on the Allied commander's face. They are rarely used in the average EiR game, but I imagine it will work pretty well against M10 spam.

[GenericNameAxis]

Just make sure you start with alot of AT since their entire callin consists of quads and m10s theyll try to rush your spawn. After the initial callins
       just make sure you have enough at and watch out for stickies. Besides the M10s and stickies theres no AT in their companies. A tiger +a Kingtiger will chew them up.

[[AB]RikiRude]

Did you guys actually watch the replay? Or are you just talking out your asses? No shit shcreck and pak do good against m-10s. But when you have 2 m-10s and 2 quads coming at you, it isn't so simple, even bringing a stug into the mix isn't helpful.

Also, I guess I'm expected to make companies specifically to counter certain players companies? So fausts will work wonders against M-10 spam? How many fausts does it take to take one down? I'm going to guess 3. At 65 muni, I was supposed to buy 24 fausts, spend all my munitions just on fausts.

Oh and good idea, a dual panther start! Oh wait a minute, aren't panthers 16 pop cap? Meaning that 2 panthers would be 32 pop cap? Nice try, but fail.

Try watching replay before you theory craft.

[AmPM]

Wait for it.....

Riki, you have 2 players right? So you could do a Panther, 1 squad of grens and an HMG...per player.

[Unkn0wn]

A single panther will easily deal with 2 M10s I imagine, and you could give those grens schreks if you don't think so!

[Steinmarder]

My 20cent for Axis against Allied vehicle spam:

Fighting a large amount of fast vehicles is tough, but if you micro your AT guns well and have em covered you can crush it.
The word 'fast' is the more important there. Doesnt matter that much what kind of vehicle it is, the point that it is faster than the casual tank greatly increases the amount of micromanagement needed.

Ostwind and Panther in support of the AT positions (and the mentioned volks to reman it ASAP!) do wonders. Of course not Ostwind + Panther, its obviously depending on the current battlefield situation what you bring out first.

Those games are tough because of the speed, but after 15-20mins of sweat you usually have broken the push and the pressure goes down, allowing you to start fielding more and more infantry to get into position for incoming rifle blobs.

Or your AT is destroyed / taken over by now and you can retreat from the field (-> try to improve your AT gun micro / take better positions next time like unflankable spots (eg hedges protecting the sides of the AT gun))
Flak88s should also be heavily fortified to the sides / covered by more stuff so you dont loose it due to the slow turret rotation. In the right position with a bike in front of it and blocked off flanks it takes out anything before it can start flanking around / blocks the area completely from enemys trying to engage there.

I know it sounds like 'well just play better' but those spams really are easily crushable if you concentrate on the weakpoint, the low survivability of the vehicles. If you take the right positions and react fast enough they dont stand a chance and need to rework their tactic or loose it all.

You normally loose a couple of tanks and all the vet on the AT guns in the process, but thats it. When the vehicles are done there is more or less only infantry left to fight and they run into all those grens with lmgs and hmgs you didnt have to field yet.

[didnt watch the replay, no, these are general thoughts about games i played (and won) against vehicle spam tactics]

Cheers. Stein

[Schultz]

Me and velocity had a game where the allies constantly spam quads and m10s, and rushed us from the first minute. As soon as a quad or m10 dued, a new one came to replace it.
After the first minutes it became clear what their companies conisted of.
So we brought in schreks, paks and 2 p4s and game became this arcade shoot out of allied vehicles.
Its funny how fast you can kill tanks and quads when you concentrate at.

You can beat spam easily, as long as you bring in and in sufficient amounts the counter. If they spam that, you can spam at.
If you struggle for a long time, and youre on - as far as caping go, youre going to lose the fight, because in the end you will get outspamed no matter what.
So you need to respond with more aggresiveness againt your opponents.
At least this is what i have learned.

[doctorsamuri]

good reply 

[Baasje]

Good job to Schultz for presenting Riki with the right counter to our strat! And by the way, we got our ass handed that game.... You just need a anti light vehicle/infantry tank, panzer 4 or an ostwind would be the right choice. These should be supported by at least a cloaked pak and some more AT to your liking. Keep them together and move up the field. You won't even have to chance your company for this to work.

So Riki, try to keep your head cool, work a bit on your micro and no blacklists are needed!

Ciao

[Nachbar]

The newest 'counter' to this strategy: Wolter pressed Abandon so the companies of all players stay engaged until it gets auto-forced. And no, not for a valid reason, there were no problems or lag during the game other then the unit choice this topic is about. And yes, the 'strat' is easy to counter it, the win/loss ratio is barely above 50%...

[Wolster2]

Yep i admit it, i Alt + F4 out of this game, & guess what its the 1st time ive ever used this exit stratagy & i make no appologies. U ruin the game with shitty spam & i ruin the game with Alt + F4, so go screw yourself.

[jjwajjwa]

How about you cancel your abandon and force the right report so at least people, including you and your teammate, can use their company again.

[CatinHat]

lame person wolster

"Yep i admit it, i Alt + F4 out of this game, & guess what its the 1st time ive ever used this exit stratagy & i make no appologies. U ruin the game with shitty spam & i ruin the game with Alt + F4, so go screw yourself."

Its people like you that are killing this mod...

[Nachbar]

Yep i admit it, i Alt + F4 out of this game, & guess what its the 1st time ive ever used this exit stratagy & i make no appologies. U ruin the game with shitty spam & i ruin the game with Alt + F4, so go screw yourself.

We used a combination of units you do not like. How does that ever justify purposely using something that's pretty much an exploit.

[Wolster2]

Erm how about they abandon & therefore leave the game, & stop using cheap ass tactics to win & try developing a level of skill slightly higher than a Banzai charge at the entry point.

[AmPM]

The problem is, any company type taken to an extreme is really tough to beat with a balanced company.

So whats the fix? There isn't one. If you see you are going against them start with 2 PAKs each, 2 Volks with Faust, 1 Mortar, 1 HMG. Should shut down the start really fast and give you plenty of capping and holding power. Bring in more AI as the game goes on since 4 PAKs should be able to keep the light armor off you completely. You have to specialize your start, but they took the time to specialize their entire company.

During WW2 the Germans used what is called a PAK Front. Multiple AT guns with supporting and overlapping fields of fire to counter Russian vehicle spam. Same principle applies here. Set up 2 at the front, 1 behind and covering, one to the side and covering. Should be able to keep at least 2 on target at all times.

[Wolster2]

Finally feel free to ban me, for any of the above, if this game is gonna degenerate into a spamfest ive got no further interest in playing here, Ill only miss the community on Vent. Needless to say these 2 spam wankers are not in that community & dont come on Vent I presume because of the bad nature of there play (Spamming, Spawn Camping, Vet Hunting all come to mind) if thats the type of player you want to encorage in this mod, then i would say it was already well & truly ruined b4 i pressed an Alt +F4.

[Nachbar]

Erm how about they abandon & therefore leave the game, & stop using cheap ass tactics to win & try developing a level of skill slightly higher than a Banzai charge at the entry point.

We get a higher win percentage playing 'normally' than with this style, so we are certainly not using this as "cheap ass tactics to win".

We do this for several reasons:

• The same old mortar vs mortar game is boring
• Defending 'normally' forces you into that.
• This strat gives a welcome change to those stale old tactics.
• Presenting people with a strategy that is different from what you see all day can be refreshing, inspiring to think differently, or at least keeps them on their toes.
  
• This strat is very easy to counter, all you need to do is see what we do and adapt to it. Picking the right units to call in and micro'ing them with "a level of skill slightly higher than a Banzai"-tree will make sure we have to work VERY hard and have a very large chance to lose because of the 'one sidedness' of this company.*

*The problem of most people who lose is they are stuck in the only playing-routine they know. What do you do when presented with a surprise? Feel challenged and think of a good way to beat us? Or start complaining and make only half-asses attempts or attempts that have not actually been thought about?

Also, we do not vet hunt. The units we use are very fragile and the gameplay weird. When we lose, we lose badly and have a very empty company left after that game. So that is the reason you see us with practically no veterancy. If we are playing a game and have units on the field, and you bring units on the field, we attack those units. Those units may have vet. Should we not shoot them, because it makes you think we vet hunt? And of course we chase them off-map, you know how fast 2 repair bunkers and a pioneer can fix units. It's war game, it's fun to shoot stuff, especially if that unit shot our own stuff a few seconds before.

The problem is, any company type taken to an extreme is really tough to beat with a balanced company.

Correct, in some ways. But often also very easy to beat if you do the right thing. Because in a lot of cases, since the enemy is very one-sided, countering them will counter them REAL HARD. Be cautious with your hard counter to whatever is being spammed and don't give it away.

I mean come on, those guys ran around the field with their PAKs totally unprotected, allowing me to kill or de-crew at least 3 PAKs with a jeep. If you give us your PAKs and Shrecks it becomes tough to beat us, since we normally lack anti-tank the most in the end of a game. If you see M10s and Quads but you keep calling in MGs and Mortars it is obviously tough to beat that company.

If you use any of the in this topic explained counter-tactics, you beat us. Keep your tank near an AT gun. Keep a Shreck near a lone AT. All very easy and something that should also generally be done in an average EiR game, even tho you may not often fight people of the skill level you need it against (yes, skill level, not spam, someone micro'ing a single unit extremely well can give you a hell of a time).

[Baasje]

I'm now hijacking this thread for a slow chat because Wolster apparently has decided to keep us from playing till the game is forced. Please Wolster, you lost, just accept it. If you read some more in this thread you will find a counter I myself have wrote up to use against us. So don't play us, do whatever you like, but just let us and LTGarcia play.....